Tesla to make electric vehicles with Toyota, buy NUMMI

"C. E. White" > wrote in
m:

> Bitten by the spell checker - Tesla, NOT Tulsa.
>
> Ed

I was just waiting for the tonguetwister myself <g>.

--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

C. E. White wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "dr_jeff" >
> Newsgroups: alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.misc,rec.autos.tech
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:10 PM
> Subject: Tesla to make electric vehicles with Toyota, buy NUMMI
>
>
>> C. E. White wrote:
>>> The way I see this, the US Government is giving Tesla half a billion
>>> dollars and Tesla is forking some of this money over to Toyota. For
>>> this Tesla is getting the old NUMMI Plant and Toyota gets to claim
>>> they are investing 50 million in Tesla.
>>
>> The NUMMI plant may be old, but the equipment is modern.
>>
>> Gee, let's see: NUMMI is in Silicon Valley which has a bunch of
>> well-motivated workers who understand technology and cars. They are
>> also motivated to help the environment (this is CA, after all). Gee,
>> sounds like using the plant is a good idea.
>
> I am not disputing that. But if using this plant was so great, why did
> Toyota abandon it? Where they just trying to lose the UAW?

I think that was part of it. The plant doesn't have a lot of other auto
parts plants around, so auto parts had to be sent in from farther away.
In addition, Toyota, like other car makers had too many plants.

>>> My real question is - which way is the cash flowing?
>>
>> Toyota is investing $50,000,000 in Tulsa. So that's where the money is
>> going: Toyota --> Tesla. Tesla is going to buy the plant for an
>> undisclosed sum.
>
> I hope you are right, but I am skeptical. I think it far more likely
> that Tulsa is paying Toyota a bundle for the plant using the US
> Government money and that the 50 million dollar Toyota "investment" is
> effectively a mark down in the cost of the plant. Maybe not. But I think
> Tulsa likes the deal because they gain instant credibility (and it
> solidifies their hold on a half of billion dollars of US Government
> cash). Toyota likes the deal because they gain some good publicity, they
> gain access to Tulsa technology

Why would someone want technology from Oklahoma?

> (although I wonder how valuable that
> technology really is), and if Tulsa is eventually successful, they own a
> piece of the pie.

So do a lot of other companies, including Diamler AG.

> Personally I doubt Tulsa can be successful unless a major automaker,
> like Toyota, gets involved. So for Tulsa, this is probably a make or
> break deal.

Diamler is one of the automakers with an interest in them.

> I do find it ironic that people rant and rave about the billions the US
> Government has sunk into GM which is now effectively owned by the US and
> Canadian governments, while no one seems at all upset that the US
> Government is granting Tulsa a half a billion dollars free and clear. On
> the basis of dollars per US job, or dollars per car, or the potential
> impact on the US economy, the money spent on GM looks like a bargain if
> you use the Tulsa give away as a yardstick. And now that Toyota is
> swooping in, the half a billion dollars given to Tulsa has a good chance
> of being essentially R&D money given to Toyota.

And Diamler AG.

>>> Is Toyota giving Tesla 50 million in cash, or is it really the other
>>> way - Tesla giving Toyota some cash for the NUMMI Plant, and that
>>> Toyota is claiming that the net difference between what they wish
>>> they could get for the old NUMMI Plant and what Tesla actual pays for
>>> it is equal to a 50 million dollar investment in Tesla? I suppose if
>>> Tesla is successful, Toyota will end up owning the company
>>
>> Toyota is investing in Tesla, which means Tesla will be part owned by
>> Toyota.
>>
>>> After reading about the sort of dishonest crap that goes on in the
>>> world of big finance, I trust nothing I read about "investments."
>>
>> Gee, they don't provide details like what percent of the company will
>> own.
>
>
> Correct. And we don't know if they have options to buy more of Tulsa at
> some predetermined price. I think Tulsa needs the deal to have any
> chance of "making it."

I think they would have made it without them. Telsa gets a plant near HQ
that is up and near running, which will decrease the lead time. It a
win-win situation for everyone. Well, except Ford, GM and Chrysler.

> I worry Toyota is taking advantage of a desperate
> company to unload a plant they don't want and gain access to some
> potentially valuable technology mostly at the expense of the US
> taxpayer. I hope I am wrong.

I don't think they were as desperate as you might think. They were about
to sign a deal to build a new plant near LA, when Mr. Toyoda stopped for
a drive (literally). They hit it off and made a deal.

Jeff

> Ed