Brake bleeding issues, need help

>
> Can you have a friend come over and do a "2 man bleed" and see if that
> solves it?
>
> Chris

yea Chris, that is the plan today, I'm gonna have 3-man!. my boy
pumping the pedal, my girl manning the air hose and me on the bleeder
valves, lol see how that goes. I'll let you all know.

Are you sure you have the correct wheel cylinders in the front and rear?
Bleeders in the rear will be higher than the brake hose.
Bleeders in the front will be higher than the brake hose too IIRC. THIS is
where I think that I found some wrong wheel cylinders installed in a Beetle
or Super Beetle.

There are some clamps you could use to clamp on the front brake hoses to see
if the problem is in the front. ALWAYS be careful with the clamps so you do
not damage the brake hose even internally. ;-)

I have seen protective caps installed on the plastic tubes letting fluid
into the master and sometime the caps can get jammed in the reservoir hoses.
BUT you are getting a good flow of fluid through so cancel that idea!

So lets see you have all new:
Master Cylinder
Wheel Cylinders
Brake Hoses
Brake Shoes

All of the metal lines are in good shape and no leaks.
Adjuster screws are all correctly oriented with it sloping downard and
adjusted tight right now.

I would vote that the front wheel brake cylinders are incorrect, but you
will tell us! ;-)
--
later,
(One out of many daves)

"Cletus" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> I tried the "adjust all brakes tight method" thats one of many methods
> i've tried, same results. I've lenghthened out the pushrod as far as
> it will go and no difference, I've got the brakes adjusted up, same
> method I've always used on all my other VW's
>
> Dave, I'm fairly sure i have no leaks, its not losing any fluid or is
> there any dampness around the tunnel area under or inside the car.

On May 16, 11:51*am, "dave AKA vwdoc1"
> wrote:
> Are you sure you have the correct wheel cylinders in the front and rear?
> Bleeders in the rear will be higher than the brake hose.
> Bleeders in the front will be higher than the brake hose too IIRC. *THIS is
> where I think that I found some wrong wheel cylinders installed in a Beetle
> or Super Beetle.
>
> There are some clamps you could use to clamp on the front brake hoses to see
> if the problem is in the front. *ALWAYS be careful with the clamps so you do
> not damage the brake hose even internally. *;-)
>
> I have seen protective caps installed on the plastic tubes letting fluid
> into the master and sometime the caps can get jammed in the reservoir hoses.
> BUT you are getting a good flow of fluid through so cancel that idea!
>
> So lets see you have all new:
> Master Cylinder
> Wheel Cylinders
> Brake Hoses
> Brake Shoes
>
> All of the metal lines are in good shape and no leaks.
> Adjuster screws are all correctly oriented with it sloping downard and
> adjusted tight right now.
>
> I would vote that the front wheel brake cylinders are incorrect, but you
> will tell us! *;-)
> --
> later,
> (One out of many daves)
>
> "Cletus" > wrote in message
>
> ...

sloping downard...

Thanks dave! you would have to introduce another nightmare!! I'm
pretty sure they are right becaue if I remember right the brakes wont
back off enough to get the drum on if they are "upside down". I'd
hate to take the drums off to check!
And the wheel cyls are probably right with bleeders on top and etc,
with the super being slightly different, at least listed seperately in
the catalogs.

I've pressured and pumped some fluid through them already today and
got some more bubbles out of the sys, damdest thing the pedal feels
solider? is that a word? with the dam bleeder screws open!

thanks,

On May 16, 12:12*pm, Cletus > wrote:
> On May 16, 11:51*am, "dave AKA vwdoc1"
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > Are you sure you have the correct wheel cylinders in the front and rear?
> > Bleeders in the rear will be higher than the brake hose.
> > Bleeders in the front will be higher than the brake hose too IIRC. *THIS is
> > where I think that I found some wrong wheel cylinders installed in a Beetle
> > or Super Beetle.
>
> > There are some clamps you could use to clamp on the front brake hoses to see
> > if the problem is in the front. *ALWAYS be careful with the clamps so you do
> > not damage the brake hose even internally. *;-)
>
> > I have seen protective caps installed on the plastic tubes letting fluid
> > into the master and sometime the caps can get jammed in the reservoir hoses.
> > BUT you are getting a good flow of fluid through so cancel that idea!
>
> > So lets see you have all new:
> > Master Cylinder
> > Wheel Cylinders
> > Brake Hoses
> > Brake Shoes
>
> > All of the metal lines are in good shape and no leaks.
> > Adjuster screws are all correctly oriented with it sloping downard and
> > adjusted tight right now.
>
> > I would vote that the front wheel brake cylinders are incorrect, but you
> > will tell us! *;-)
> > --
> > later,
> > (One out of many daves)
>
> > "Cletus" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> sloping downard...
>
> Thanks dave! you would have to introduce another nightmare!! *I'm
> pretty sure they are right becaue if I remember right the brakes wont
> back off enough to get the drum on if they are "upside down". *I'd
> hate to take the drums off to check!
> And the wheel cyls are probably right with bleeders on top and etc,
> with the super being slightly different, at least listed seperately in
> the catalogs.
>
> I've pressured and pumped some fluid through them already today and
> got some more bubbles out of the sys, *damdest thing the pedal feels
> solider? is that a word? with the dam bleeder screws open!
>
> thanks,- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

OK Dave tried the 'pinch off the hoses" stunt, hey guess what, with
the fronts pinchedoff the pedal stops after 1 inch or less travel!!!

so after the kids soccer game i will pull the hubs and see the the h
is goin on, we will walk to the game LOL... see ya

On May 15, 8:35*pm, Cletus > wrote:
> Man I can't get decent pedal! 3/4 the way down and then if if your
> lucky you won't have to pump em up. I've got to be doing something
> wrong!
>
> Start: bought the car 73 super, had mushy brakes and pulled to right
> when hard braking, installed new hoses, front wheel cyls(one leaked),
> and shoes all around. had decent brakes it seemed but more bleeding
> was needed but it was cold out. Then we had a big snow, i had chains
> on the rears and only the fronts would brake, car would only stop on
> the ice with handbrake applied, which meant the rears werent getting
> eny braking. *So installed a new master cyl and rear cyls. *bled more
> cans of fluid through them, still 90% of the time !!WOW!! pedal all
> the way to the floor and no brakes!! pump em up and give yourself
> plenty of stopping distance. *More bleeding: gravity bleeding,
> pressure bleeding, pump pump pump hold bleeding, every method
> described in every webpage and service manual ever written,(except
> vacuum) still no changes.
>
> OK maybe I got a bad brazil master cyl. so another 40 bucks for a new
> one, installed and no changes, bled a big can through them, still no
> air out of the whel cyls but still surprise all the way to the floor
> pedal.
>
> * next step, drive it over a cliff!!
>
> * Any one got any ideas? or similar experiences that could help caue
> I'm stumped.
>
> * *ps, *my ol 68 never had this kind of issue ever, * i always gravity
> bled for a few mins and all was well. it still has one inch pedal
> before solid braking after last overhauling the brakes on it a few
> years ago.

OK narrowed it down to lthe left front, using Daves "pinch off the
hose" method(VERY CAREFULLY) so as to not ruin my new hoses.

good hard pedal with it pinched off, with it open the pedal is 3/4
down or more, SO now the question is what to replace first, or what
to do next, Opinions Please, talk to you all tomorrow...

"Cletus" > wrote in message
...

>OK narrowed it down to lthe left front, using Daves "pinch off the
>hose" method(VERY CAREFULLY) so as to not ruin my new hoses.

>good hard pedal with it pinched off, with it open the pedal is 3/4
>down or more, SO now the question is what to replace first, or what
>to do next, Opinions Please, talk to you all tomorrow...

either the shoes are way loose, you are losing fluid, or you forgot to put
the drum on...LOL...

Hmmm I did not think about the drums being off! lol
BUT maybe Beetle shoes inside of a Super Beetle front drum might be just
like the drums are off! ;-)


"Joey Tribiani" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Cletus" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>OK narrowed it down to lthe left front, using Daves "pinch off the
>>hose" method(VERY CAREFULLY) so as to not ruin my new hoses.
>
>>good hard pedal with it pinched off, with it open the pedal is 3/4
>>down or more, SO now the question is what to replace first, or what
>>to do next, Opinions Please, talk to you all tomorrow...
>
> either the shoes are way loose, you are losing fluid, or you forgot to put
> the drum on...LOL...
>

I guess it is an adjustment deal, Adjusted over and over last nght, also
going to check the fluid flow from the T onward to the left wheel, didnt
have time today to do much of anything other than drive it awhile with muchy
pedal but with no surprise dead pedal like it was doing before. gettin
there, thanks everybody


"dave AKA vwdoc1" > wrote in message
...
> Hmmm I did not think about the drums being off! lol
> BUT maybe Beetle shoes inside of a Super Beetle front drum might be just
> like the drums are off! ;-)
>
>
> "Joey Tribiani" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Cletus" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>OK narrowed it down to lthe left front, using Daves "pinch off the
>>>hose" method(VERY CAREFULLY) so as to not ruin my new hoses.
>>
>>>good hard pedal with it pinched off, with it open the pedal is 3/4
>>>down or more, SO now the question is what to replace first, or what
>>>to do next, Opinions Please, talk to you all tomorrow...
>>
>> either the shoes are way loose, you are losing fluid, or you forgot to
>> put the drum on...LOL...
>>
>
>

Anyway after all that claptrap, it was an adjustment issue, the left front
was WAY out of adjustment. the "scraping" i heard was phantom and the wheel
not turning freely was a tight bearing. So the upshot basically is, FOR
SALE: one slightly used master cyl, 2 rear wheel syls, 14 gallons of used
brake fluid lol, and loss of my license as a certified VW know it all...

I think the shoe was slighly out of "center" on the adjusters and wheel cyl
slots. I kept tightening and slamming on the brakes and finally centered
everything and now the brakes are as good as any 49 year old junker around
lol...


"DADDS" > wrote in message ...
>I guess it is an adjustment deal, Adjusted over and over last nght, also
>going to check the fluid flow from the T onward to the left wheel, didnt
>have time today to do much of anything other than drive it awhile with
>muchy pedal but with no surprise dead pedal like it was doing before.
>gettin there, thanks everybody
>
>
> "dave AKA vwdoc1" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hmmm I did not think about the drums being off! lol
>> BUT maybe Beetle shoes inside of a Super Beetle front drum might be just
>> like the drums are off! ;-)
>>
>>
>> "Joey Tribiani" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Cletus" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>>OK narrowed it down to lthe left front, using Daves "pinch off the
>>>>hose" method(VERY CAREFULLY) so as to not ruin my new hoses.
>>>
>>>>good hard pedal with it pinched off, with it open the pedal is 3/4
>>>>down or more, SO now the question is what to replace first, or what
>>>>to do next, Opinions Please, talk to you all tomorrow...
>>>
>>> either the shoes are way loose, you are losing fluid, or you forgot to
>>> put the drum on...LOL...
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

well congrats to you!!!
we knew you could do it................eventually! lol



"Cletus" > wrote in message
...
> Anyway after all that claptrap, it was an adjustment issue, the left front
> was WAY out of adjustment. the "scraping" i heard was phantom and the
> wheel not turning freely was a tight bearing. So the upshot basically is,
> FOR SALE: one slightly used master cyl, 2 rear wheel syls, 14 gallons of
> used brake fluid lol, and loss of my license as a certified VW know it
> all...
>
> I think the shoe was slighly out of "center" on the adjusters and wheel
> cyl slots. I kept tightening and slamming on the brakes and finally
> centered everything and now the brakes are as good as any 49 year old
> junker around lol...
>
>
> "DADDS" > wrote in message ...
>>I guess it is an adjustment deal, Adjusted over and over last nght, also
>>going to check the fluid flow from the T onward to the left wheel, didnt
>>have time today to do much of anything other than drive it awhile with
>>muchy pedal but with no surprise dead pedal like it was doing before.
>>gettin there, thanks everybody
>>
>>
>> "dave AKA vwdoc1" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Hmmm I did not think about the drums being off! lol
>>> BUT maybe Beetle shoes inside of a Super Beetle front drum might be just
>>> like the drums are off! ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> "Joey Tribiani" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Cletus" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>>OK narrowed it down to lthe left front, using Daves "pinch off the
>>>>>hose" method(VERY CAREFULLY) so as to not ruin my new hoses.
>>>>
>>>>>good hard pedal with it pinched off, with it open the pedal is 3/4
>>>>>down or more, SO now the question is what to replace first, or what
>>>>>to do next, Opinions Please, talk to you all tomorrow...
>>>>
>>>> either the shoes are way loose, you are losing fluid, or you forgot to
>>>> put the drum on...LOL...
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>