Downshifting

OP here...
I agree - a smooth downshift is satisfying.
I'm glad the topic has created a vigorous discussion. It was a question
that intrigued me...is it necessary or destructive or ???

As far as European preferences go:
My wife and I recently visited Iceland. The bus that shuttled us from
Keflavik to Reykjavik after we arrived was luxurious, modern, and the
first manual transmission bus I have ridden in since grade school!

Automobile rentals are the same ... if someone wants a car with an
automatic transmission they must reserve one.

BTW: Ring Road 1 is a wonderful driving experience! It would be a blast
if the MX-5 could go with us next time ....


>
>
> I love getting a downshift just right. Say you have a hill coming up and
> you want to go from fifth to fourth, you give the throttle a little nudge
> and you're doing exactly the same speed, only at higher revs. It's one of
> those satisfying little things that never fails to put a smile on my face.
>
> I've been trying to do the heel-and-toe thing, but I think my feet are the
> wrong size for the pedals.
>
>
>>Double-clutching: necessary or not?
>
>
> No.
>
>
>>Comments and suggestions welcome...
>>
>>Since there are fewer 5/6-speed manual transmission autos sold in the
>>U.S. these days, perhaps it is a lost skill?
>
>
> I read that in Europe it's 80/20 in favor of standards, and 20/80 here. I
> don't understand why this is.

On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 04:18:27 +0000, Alan Baker wrote:
>> In article .com>,
>> Carbon > wrote:

>> > I've been trying to do the heel-and-toe thing, but I think my feet
>> > are the wrong size for the pedals.

> Place your foot so that it is on the brake pedal as you would for normal
> use. Now, move it slightly to the right and rotate it counter clockwise,
> so that you end up with the ball of your foot still on the brake pedal,
> but the right edge of your foot just over the accelerator (near the
> heel, but you're not actually trying to get the heel squarely over it).
>
> You should now be able to apply all the necessary force to the brake
> pedal and by "rolling" your foot, use the edge of your foot to blip the
> accelerator.

Yesterday on the way home from work I was practicing a stoplight and when
the light turned green this old 5.0 Mustang in the other lane took off
like a scalded cat.

I saw heel-and-toeing done properly recently on an older Top Gear episode
(great show, btw) on Youtube, where the intrepid Tiff Needell was really
flying in a Ferrari Modena. He of course was perfect, even with the gated
shifter. But then he is a professional. It's harder than it looks.

The top-end cars are all going to various forms of manumatic gearboxes
with paddle shifters. The fact is they just work faster and better. It's a
matter of time before clutch pedals and true manual gearboxes become even
more quaint here than they are already.

In article .com>,
Carbon > wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 04:18:27 +0000, Alan Baker wrote:
> >> In article .com>,
> >> Carbon > wrote:
>
> >> > I've been trying to do the heel-and-toe thing, but I think my feet
> >> > are the wrong size for the pedals.
>
> > Place your foot so that it is on the brake pedal as you would for normal
> > use. Now, move it slightly to the right and rotate it counter clockwise,
> > so that you end up with the ball of your foot still on the brake pedal,
> > but the right edge of your foot just over the accelerator (near the
> > heel, but you're not actually trying to get the heel squarely over it).
> >
> > You should now be able to apply all the necessary force to the brake
> > pedal and by "rolling" your foot, use the edge of your foot to blip the
> > accelerator.
>
> Yesterday on the way home from work I was practicing a stoplight and when
> the light turned green this old 5.0 Mustang in the other lane took off
> like a scalded cat.
>
> I saw heel-and-toeing done properly recently on an older Top Gear episode
> (great show, btw) on Youtube, where the intrepid Tiff Needell was really
> flying in a Ferrari Modena. He of course was perfect, even with the gated
> shifter. But then he is a professional. It's harder than it looks.
>
> The top-end cars are all going to various forms of manumatic gearboxes
> with paddle shifters. The fact is they just work faster and better. It's a
> matter of time before clutch pedals and true manual gearboxes become even
> more quaint here than they are already.

I completely agree, and as much as I admire technological advancement
I'm going to miss straight manual gearboxes and clutches and the dance
of feet and hands.

--
'It is Mac OS X, not BSD.' -- 'From Mac OS to BSD Unix.'
"It's BSD Unix with Apple's APIs and GUI on top of it' -- 'nothing but BSD Unix'
(Edwin on Mac OS X)

'[The IBM PC] could boot multiple OS, such as DOS, C/PM, GEM, etc.' --
'I claimed nothing about GEM other than it was available software for the
IBM PC. (Edwin on GEM)

Ahhh! how dare you disagree (I don't call that arguing) Pat? Actually I
don't remember ever having a clutch replaced on a car I've owned either,
hmmmm, weird. I do remember my son's going out in an old eclipse. The brake
pad issue is trivial though real, probably more important in bigger /
heavier cars but, that's not why I do it. It's really just about driver
involvement, I'm for it! In every way, I'm for it, it's just a bit more
enjoyment / action for me. Actually, I'm worried about the use 'um or lose
'um proposition on the brain cells ;-)

Chris
99BBB

"pws" > wrote in message
...
> Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
>> I have driven my three kids crazy with this one, yes downshifting is part
>> of operating a manual transmission correctly. I still have to work on
>> them as 2 of them like to put the clutch in and limit the use of brain
>> cells (are they trying to preserve them? I say use um or lose um!). It
>> saves on your brake pads to use the engine as such and if shifting is
>> done correctly, there's no serious detriment to the clutch. It's an
>> advanced driving technique, not hugely advanced by any means but it shows
>> that you know what they heck you're doing if little more. Oh, and Houston
>> is fair game (too flat for my liking).
>>
>> Chris
>> 99BBB
>
> I replaced my last miata brake pads at 70,000 miles and they still had
> some life left on the front pads. I went ahead and did the rears at the
> same time, and it looked like they had half of their material left.
>
> The point is, I guess, is that we are talking about maybe 3 or 4 brake pad
> changes total over the life of the car, and that is only if I had owned it
> for a long time. I can live with that kind of pad wear.
>
> Brake pads and rotors are relatively inexpensive and brake work is
> extremely easy.
> The same can not be said for clutches. There may not be a serious
> detriment to downshifting for stops, but the surface is still losing just
> a bit more material more every single time it engages.
>
> I have been rolling up to stop signs and lights for about 16 of my 22
> years of driving now, meaning anytime I have owned a manual, and have
> never had to replace one of my own clutches. It works great for me.
>
> My god, I am arguing with Chris D. now. Maybe I'll pick on Houston next.
> ;-)
>
> Pat
>
>

Don Bruder wrote:
> In article >,
> Grant Edwards > wrote:
>
>> On 2006-11-03, Don Bruder > wrote:
>>
>>>> How do you handle stopping and starting?
>>>
>>> First, defeat whatever %(*#^^%#%%$ interlock the idiots put on the
>>> car to prevent cranking while in gear/clutch engaged.
>>
>> That's the tricky part if you didn't think of it until you're
>> stuck in a large empty parking lot after you return from a
>> business trip and find your clutch no longer works.
>
> Which is why, as I noted, it's the second thing that happens after I
> take posession of the vehicle. (Third is removing or permanently
> silencing those damned "door ajar" and "fasten seat belts"
> noisemakers)

Better cut those pesky airbags out while you're operating, Doc.

--
tooloud
Remove nothing to reply

tooloud wrote:
> Don Bruder wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Grant Edwards > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2006-11-03, Don Bruder > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> How do you handle stopping and starting?
>>>> First, defeat whatever %(*#^^%#%%$ interlock the idiots put on the
>>>> car to prevent cranking while in gear/clutch engaged.
>>> That's the tricky part if you didn't think of it until you're
>>> stuck in a large empty parking lot after you return from a
>>> business trip and find your clutch no longer works.
>> Which is why, as I noted, it's the second thing that happens after I
>> take posession of the vehicle. (Third is removing or permanently
>> silencing those damned "door ajar" and "fasten seat belts"
>> noisemakers)
>
> Better cut those pesky airbags out while you're operating, Doc.
>


My miata is missing all of the above, though I don't think it ever had a
door ajar buzzer, I'm not sure.

The airbag, (it only came with one), is the only thing that I would
consider putting back in, and I don't want the one from 1991 in there.

The clutch lock is useless to me.
Now that it has the ACT3 clutch, disengaging the clutch lock is
beneficial enough to the point that I consider it mandatory.

The day that I need a warning buzzer to tell me to put the seat belt on
or to tell me that a door is not fully closed will also be the day that
it is time to take away my keys and put me out to pasture.

Pat

Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
> Ahhh! how dare you disagree (I don't call that arguing) Pat? Actually I
> don't remember ever having a clutch replaced on a car I've owned either,
> hmmmm, weird. I do remember my son's going out in an old eclipse. The brake
> pad issue is trivial though real, probably more important in bigger /
> heavier cars but, that's not why I do it. It's really just about driver
> involvement, I'm for it! In every way, I'm for it, it's just a bit more
> enjoyment / action for me. Actually, I'm worried about the use 'um or lose
> 'um proposition on the brain cells ;-)
>
> Chris
> 99BBB


Damn you and your logic!

It can't be hurting, since you can leave me behind in the twisties while
you driving a slower car.

For those that haven't had the pleasure of watching Chris's taillights
disappear into the distance, he is no slouch behind the wheel.

Pat

Pat, stop it, people will think one of us is an evangelical preacher and one
of us is a ..... ah ....... masseuse!? Ya, right!

Chris
99BBB

"pws" > wrote in message
...
> Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
>> Ahhh! how dare you disagree (I don't call that arguing) Pat? Actually I
>> don't remember ever having a clutch replaced on a car I've owned either,
>> hmmmm, weird. I do remember my son's going out in an old eclipse. The
>> brake pad issue is trivial though real, probably more important in bigger
>> / heavier cars but, that's not why I do it. It's really just about driver
>> involvement, I'm for it! In every way, I'm for it, it's just a bit more
>> enjoyment / action for me. Actually, I'm worried about the use 'um or
>> lose 'um proposition on the brain cells ;-)
>>
>> Chris
>> 99BBB
>
>
> Damn you and your logic!
>
> It can't be hurting, since you can leave me behind in the twisties while
> you driving a slower car.
>
> For those that haven't had the pleasure of watching Chris's taillights
> disappear into the distance, he is no slouch behind the wheel.
>
> Pat

In article <yd93h.1051032$084.240862@attbi_s22>,
"tooloud" > wrote:

> Don Bruder wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Grant Edwards > wrote:
> >
> >> On 2006-11-03, Don Bruder > wrote:
> >>
> >>>> How do you handle stopping and starting?
> >>>
> >>> First, defeat whatever %(*#^^%#%%$ interlock the idiots put on the
> >>> car to prevent cranking while in gear/clutch engaged.
> >>
> >> That's the tricky part if you didn't think of it until you're
> >> stuck in a large empty parking lot after you return from a
> >> business trip and find your clutch no longer works.
> >
> > Which is why, as I noted, it's the second thing that happens after I
> > take posession of the vehicle. (Third is removing or permanently
> > silencing those damned "door ajar" and "fasten seat belts"
> > noisemakers)
>
> Better cut those pesky airbags out while you're operating, Doc.

I wouldn't buy a car with airbags in the first place.

--
Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info

In article >,
pws > wrote:

> tooloud wrote:
> > Don Bruder wrote:
> >> In article >,
> >> Grant Edwards > wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2006-11-03, Don Bruder > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> How do you handle stopping and starting?
> >>>> First, defeat whatever %(*#^^%#%%$ interlock the idiots put on the
> >>>> car to prevent cranking while in gear/clutch engaged.
> >>> That's the tricky part if you didn't think of it until you're
> >>> stuck in a large empty parking lot after you return from a
> >>> business trip and find your clutch no longer works.
> >> Which is why, as I noted, it's the second thing that happens after I
> >> take posession of the vehicle. (Third is removing or permanently
> >> silencing those damned "door ajar" and "fasten seat belts"
> >> noisemakers)
> >
> > Better cut those pesky airbags out while you're operating, Doc.
> >
>
>
> My miata is missing all of the above, though I don't think it ever had a
> door ajar buzzer, I'm not sure.
>
> The airbag, (it only came with one), is the only thing that I would
> consider putting back in, and I don't want the one from 1991 in there.
>
> The clutch lock is useless to me.
> Now that it has the ACT3 clutch, disengaging the clutch lock is
> beneficial enough to the point that I consider it mandatory.
>
> The day that I need a warning buzzer to tell me to put the seat belt on
> or to tell me that a door is not fully closed will also be the day that
> it is time to take away my keys and put me out to pasture.
>
> Pat

Precisely my views. I don't need a vehicle tyring to "out-think" me
about when it's OK to crank. When I turn the key, I mean crank, and do
it now. Unconditionally. If it's in gear and I don't have the clutch
mashed to the floorboards, crank anyway - I *WANT* the vehicle to move
(or at least, the drive wheels to spin) as I'm cranking, for whatever
silly (or not-so-silly) reason. That's why I'm turning the key! If I
didn't wnat the drive wheels turning as it cranked, I would have either
stomped the clutch or pulled it out of gear before turning the key, or
simply not turned the key in the first place!

Likewise, I don't need to be buzzed, bleated, or beeped at for the door
being open - It's open for a reason. Ditto the seatbelt - It's not
fastened for a reason. Perhaps because I'm not intending to go anywhere.
Perhaps simply because I choose not to fasten it. Whatever the reason,
good, bad, or otherwise, SHUT UP ALREADY! I know it isn't fastened, and
having a buzzer going off at me about it isn't going to change that!

--
Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info