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Myth: The motor car is the ultimate freedom machine
On 2015-01-05 05:27:58 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said:
> On Sunday, January 4, 2015 11:00:12 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote: >> On 2015-01-05 03:43:52 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said: >> >>> On Sunday, January 4, 2015 8:28:50 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote: >>>> On 2015-01-04 23:22:06 +0000, Free Spirit, Chief of Quixotic Enterprises said: >>>> >>>>> On Sunday, January 4, 2015 5:46:14 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote: >>>>>> On 2015-01-04 22:43:11 +0000, Free Spirit, Chief of Quixotic Enterprises said: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 1:35:08 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2015-01-03 17:19:34 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 9:23:54 AM UTC-5, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most >>>>>>>>> Humble Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>>>>> You drivers are placing the noose around your own neck. Your radicalism >>>>>>>>>> doesn't even tolerate the bicycle. The bicycle infrastructure is non >>>>>>>>>> existent or dysfunctional. Public transportation is highly >>>>>>>>>> dysfunctional too. You oppose trains in the city. You oppose fast >>>>>>>>>> trains as well. What's next? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Carmageddon!" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't think we should turn this into a class struggle issue because >>>>>>>>> we often are both cyclists and drivers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Naturally the bicycle is the most democratic vehicle of the two and the >>>>>>>>> one that keeps you in touch with your community. I don't think you >>>>>>>>> should even vote if you don't ride a bike. You don't know what's going >>>>>>>>> on. You don't know about crime. You don't know about broken sidewalks. >>>>>>>>> You don't know about corruption. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More completely bull****. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Everything is dysfunctional. You think we want free facilities. No, we >>>>>>>>> don't want any of that. Bike lanes don't work, not connected, used for >>>>>>>>> deliveries. They become another excuse for corruption. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I KNOW you receive free facilities. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Who will pay for those if you actually eliminate car use? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Eliminate car use?" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I tell you drivers tend to be radical. I want to retire the bad drivers >>>>>>> so the other forms of transportation as well as the good drivers can >>>>>>> enjoy more room. >>>>>> >>>>>> I want to require all drivers to be good drivers... ...or lose their >>>>>> right to drive. >>>>> >>>>> Well, we need those SPEED CAMERAS to start separating the good drivers >>>>> from the bad drivers. >>>> >>>> No. We don't. >>>> >>>> Speed cameras tell you precisely nothing about whether some is a good >>>> driver or not. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hint: Good drivers don't go speeding on city streets. They should have >>>>> a working passing lane on freeways. >>>> >>>> If by "speeding" you mean "exceeding the posted limit", then you can >>>> make every driver into a "bad" driver simply by lowering the limit to a >>>> ridiculous number. >>>> >>>> The simple fact is that traffic engineers and scientists recommend >>>> setting limits at the 85th percentile of free flowing traffic speed. A >>>> limit set below that will result in many good drivers exceeding it. >>> >>> Excuses, excuses, excuses. The best drivers --the Germans-- coexist >>> with cameras. They go fast where they can. >> >> And you can co-exist with a lot of things... >> >> ...that doesn't make it optimal. >> >> Speed cameras aren't about improving safety. You pay the ticket, but >> you don't get any points on your license. >> >> Hence, you don't get removed from the driver pool unless you are very >> unlucky and poor. >> > > Well, you boasted of not having tickets in the last 10 years and all of > a sudden the speed cameras worry you. What gives? 1. That's not what I said. 2. Such things may begin small, but they tend to grown. 3. The more we tell people that the only way you can be a bad driver is to exceed the posted limit, the more people will believe that they dont' have to do anything else correctly to be safe. |
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