I'm sick of hearing about law-abiding gun owners

Everybody in the country (except me of course) speeds and drives drunk
and runs red lights. Three super-violent crimes that kill thousands
of americans every year.

Since everyone is a criminal we need to allow ALL adult citizens to
have guns. That's what the constitution says - "shall not be
infringed".

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 18:56:11 -0800, Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are Murderers
wrote:

> Everybody in the country (except me of course) speeds and drives drunk
> and runs red lights. Three super-violent crimes that kill thousands of
> americans every year.
>
> Since everyone is a criminal we need to allow ALL adult citizens to have
> guns. That's what the constitution says - "shall not be infringed".


Well, it *would* foster a wave of politeness ... :-)

There are good and bad aspects to arming everyone.
It *is* a good deterrent against many kinds of crime.
Only a serious loon would try robbery or rape when
they know anybody could plug 'em.

The potential downside is that people, even the
'good people', can BECOME loons if they are drunk
or, especially, if they get angry. Angry people
tend to reach for the most powerful weapon readily
at hand and better judgement about using it may
not exist in a state of emotional pique. No point
saying it SHOULD exist ... humans are not robots,
all systems are not always 'Go'.

Intensive training - military, police and some kinds
of civvie programs - can make a big difference in
helping people in highly emotional states maintain
a level of sensibility about when to use their weapon.
Alas, most people won't have such training and you'll
see knee-jerk responses to danger and agitation.

So ... the best compromise is pretty much what we
have now - the necessity to take SOME kind of training
before being issued a carry permit. No, this 'training'
is not 'intensive', not really adequate, but it's still
a lot better than nothing. It helps form a safer mindset,
some consciousness about the weapon, responsibilities
and consequences. Even in states that issue lots of
carry permits, you don't see many licensed people
drawing down on some asshole who insulted him in
a bar. "Presence of mind" usually pervails.

I'd like to see the training requirement expanded just
a bit ... a multi-day course that includes LIVE, not
videotaped, enactments of common real-life scenerios.
It'd produce much MORE 'presence of mind' AND tend to
weed out more hotheads and mental defectives. Consider
it part of the price of the firearm.

Now is that 'infringement' ? Hmmmm ... depends. If some
large amount of money is involved then it would be
discriminatory - treating poor folks as less-than-equal.
But if it's, say, half the price of the gun then if you
can afford the gun you can afford the pre-licence training.
Local gun dealers and the NRA can kick some into the kiddie
too since such training is in their best interests.

Now yea ... all Swiss males are required to take military
training AND keep assault weapons at home just-in-case.
You don't hear much about mass slaughters in Switzerland.
But, the Swiss ain't Americans ... different mentality,
much less Wild West and much more 'conform to the norm'.
Intercultural comparisons are unreliable ... we have to
be talking about current-day Americans when we discuss
such matters.

And I know plenty of Americans I would rather were NOT
packin' heat because they're hotheads or assholes or
ain't quite right in the head. Ergo the abovementioned
"delayed and qualified non-infringement' approach seems
the better solution.

Oh yea, the NRA idea about armed teachers. It's not so
uncommon in Israel because of the constant threats ...
and since the kill-everybody meme seems to have become
entrenched in the USA I suppose we should take necessary
precautions against that kind of terrorism. The best
fix, at least short-term, is to use real cops as guards.
However longer term ... consider ... pretty much every
school will have a few military veterans as teachers.
They're pre-trained ... and thus exactly the right
teachers to arm (so long as they don't have PTSD).

"Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are Murderers" > wrote in
:

> Everybody in the country (except me of course) speeds and drives drunk
> and runs red lights. Three super-violent crimes that kill thousands
> of americans every year.
>
> Since everyone is a criminal we need to allow ALL adult citizens to
> have guns. That's what the constitution says - "shall not be
> infringed".
>


Read the first four words of the Second Amendment
and get back to us.

On Dec 29, 8:44*pm, "Mr.B1ack" > wrote:

>
> * *And I know plenty of Americans I would rather were NOT
> * *packin' heat because they're hotheads or assholes or
> * *ain't quite right in the head. Ergo the abovementioned
> * *"delayed and qualified non-infringement' approach seems
> * *the better solution.
>
>

We let them drive cars and that's even crazier. And there is no
constitutional right to drive a car BTW.

The constitution says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED." So how can any restrictions be placed on who
can have a gun?

**** 4 Brains spewed:

> Everybody in the country (except me of course) speeds

Liar. See .sig.

> and drives drunk
>
> and runs red lights. Three super-violent crimes that kill thousands
>
> of americans every year.

Which is a crying shame. It really needs to be hundreds of thousands of dullards like you killed every year...

--
Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS (a.k.a. SFB) admits to being
a deadly speeder, psychopath and criminal coddler:

"> Have you ever driven a car faster than the legal speed limit?

Yes, but never deliberately. In fact i got a speeding ticket about 5
years ago for doing 41 in a 25. I just about kicked the cops teeth in
cause i was sure he was lying. No way the SL on this wide open
stretch could be 25, i thought."

Pride of America (c.k.a. Laura Bush murdered her boyfriend/
laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE/Speeders And Drunk Drivers
Are Murderers (SADDAM)), 10/3/2002
Message-ID: >
http://tinyurl.com/5u4wg

Proof that POA is LBMHB/lbVH/SADDAM:
See the following: http://tinyurl.com/ahphj

On Dec 29, 8:49*pm, Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> "Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are Murderers" > wrote :
>
> > Everybody in the country (except me of course) speeds and drives drunk
> > and runs red lights. *Three super-violent crimes that kill thousands
> > of americans every year.
>
> > Since everyone is a criminal we need to allow ALL adult citizens to
> > have guns. *That's what the constitution says - "shall not be
> > infringed".
>
> * * Read the first four words of the Second Amendment
> and get back to us.

"A well regulated militia". So what's your point? That phrase
obviously means all adult citizens.. THINK

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:34:40 -0800, Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are Murderers
wrote:

> On Dec 29, 8:44Â*pm, "Mr.B1ack" > wrote:
>
>
>> Â* Â*And I know plenty of Americans I would rather were NOT packin'
>> Â* Â*heat because they're hotheads or assholes or ain't quite right in
>> Â* Â*the head. Ergo the abovementioned "delayed and qualified
>> Â* Â*non-infringement' approach seems the better solution.
>>
>>
>>
> We let them drive cars and that's even crazier.

Yep.

But fear not ... Google HAS the solution, self-driving
cars that already drive better than people. By the time
the consumer version is ready in a couple of years they
will drive FAR better than people ... just in time for
the huge wave of aging boomers becoming unfit to drive.

As I see it, in ten or fifteen years, you will have to
pass a rather more difficult course to get a drivers
license ... that licence being the right to turn OFF
the auto-drive system in some, but not all, circumstances.

Efficient/safe urban traffic management will mean the
auto-drive will HAVE to be on during commutes and in
congested situations. You can double the width of a
highway at an insane cost OR use linked auto-drive
cars to get maximum use out of what you've got and
move as much or even more traffic than the double-wide
highway.

So, with BIG money and TIGHT budgets involved, auto-drive
cars WILL become mandatory - fast.

> And there is no
> constitutional right to drive a car BTW.

I don't recall a constitutional right to pee either,
or have good-tasting food or to scratch yer ass or ...

> The constitution says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms
> SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED." So how can any restrictions be placed on who
> can have a gun?

Easy ... they invented a new category - "WMD"s - which
is distinct from 'arms'. There is no explicit constitutional
right to WMDs. If, by law, even the crappiest little semi-auto
.22 is reclassified as a WMD then ... well .....

The sort of semantic perversion only lawyers could dream
up ? Abso****inlutely.

Wait until they get back to the Bork definition of
'speech' - ordinary, unprotected, speech and 'political',
protected, speech. Won't take 'em long to clean out
the 'protected' closet .... pretty much to the point
where only elected officials can be deemed to issue
'political' speech .......

They've already worked around the need to get warrants
for most searches ...

When the constitution was being drafted, there were many
delegates who didn't think a 'Bill of Rights' was necessary,
thought it uglied-up the document. After all, everybody just
*knows* what their rights are ... no need to write it down.

Forward a couple of centuries and all those "known" rights
have been legislated away down to the barest-bones reading
of those original ten amendments. If the Founders hadn't
actually put SOME of those human/civil rights in writing
they'd have ALL been legislated away a long time ago.

Really ****in' sad ....

On Dec 30, 8:56*pm, "Mr.B1ack" > wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:34:40 -0800, Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are Murderers
>
>
> > The constitution says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms
> > SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED." *So how can any restrictions be placed on who
> > can have a gun?
>
> * *Easy ... they invented a new category - "WMD"s - which
> * *is distinct from 'arms'. There is no explicit constitutional
> * *right to WMDs. If, by law, even the crappiest little semi-auto
> * *.22 is reclassified as a WMD then ... well .....
>
> * *The sort of semantic perversion only lawyers could dream
> * *up ? Abso****inlutely.
>

Lawyers didn't dream that up. Words are inherently ambiguous and
everything is open to "interpretation". The vague word
"arms" esp so.

"Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are Murderers" > wrote in
:

> On Dec 29, 8:49*pm, Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>> "Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are Murderers" > wrote
>> inne
> :
>>
>> > Everybody in the country (except me of course) speeds and drives
>> > drunk and runs red lights. *Three super-violent crimes that kill
>> > thousands of americans every year.
>>
>> > Since everyone is a criminal we need to allow ALL adult citizens to
>> > have guns. *That's what the constitution says - "shall not be
>> > infringed".
>>
>> * * Read the first four words of the Second Amendment
>> and get back to us.
>
> "A well regulated militia". So what's your point? That phrase
> obviously means all adult citizens.. THINK


Actually the word "citizens" doesn't
appear until the 14th Amendment. All of
the first Ten Amendments reference "the
People".

On Dec 31, 12:00*am, Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> "Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are Murderers" > wrote :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 29, 8:49*pm, Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> >> "Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are Murderers" > wrote
> >> inne
> > :
>
> >> > Everybody in the country (except me of course) speeds and drives
> >> > drunk and runs red lights. *Three super-violent crimes that kill
> >> > thousands of americans every year.
>
> >> > Since everyone is a criminal we need to allow ALL adult citizens to
> >> > have guns. *That's what the constitution says - "shall not be
> >> > infringed".
>
> >> * * Read the first four words of the Second Amendment
> >> and get back to us.
>
> > "A *well regulated militia". *So what's your point? *That phrase
> > obviously means all adult citizens.. THINK
>
> * * Actually the word "citizens" doesn't
> appear until the 14th Amendment. All of
> the first Ten Amendments reference "the
> People".

Hollowman, you're such an idiot. Read the law of the land moron:

"Held:
1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a
firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for
traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the
home.Pp. 2–53.
(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, butdoes not
limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operativeclause. The
operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that itconnotes an
individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.
(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation...

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf