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Officer Smiley says slow the fOck down and fOck dying young!



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 18th 05, 01:21 AM posted to alt.sports.football.pro.oak-raiders,rec.autos.driving
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Default Officer Smiley says slow the fOck down and fOck dying young!


gpsman wrote:
> Izzy wrote:
> > gpsman wrote:

>
> > > A passenger is responsible for their own safety in circumstances such
> > > as this. This includes the decision to ride with an idiot (or drunk)
> > > or continuing to ride with same. Reaching over to switch off the
> > > engine is not considered unreasonable nor is calling 911 to report a
> > > "kidnapping". I've seen the result of civil litigation in this
> > > instance.
> > > -----

> >
> > For you to find that any passenger in a crash has culpability without
> > proof is absolutely ridiculous. It takes 10 pounds of pressure with a
> > foot to accelerate a car to terminal velocity. Apart from expressing a
> > strong desire for the driver to cease their actions, a passenger is
> > completely at the driver's mercy. To attempt to physically stop the
> > driver creates even more danger because you do not know the outcome of
> > their present actions.

>
> Well... it's not me who decided that the passenger can carry some
> responsibility for a driver's behavior. I am but a reporter of what I
> have observed the law has found. This incident, involving two grown
> men, can not be considered parallel with your experience.
>
> > When my 16-year old daughter climbed into a car three years ago for a
> > ride to school, she died screaming at the driver of that car to slow
> > down just before they hit an oak tree killing the driver, my daughter,
> > and leaving a boy otherwise uninjured, with emotional scars he heavily
> > carries to this day.

>
> I'm sorry for your loss...
>
> > The 'trusted' driver had given numerous kids rides home and to practice
> > without showing signs of this type of behavior to any of the kids who
> > were in that close circle. It doesn't have to be premeditated, or for
> > the driver to have a track record for these tragedies to happen.
> >
> > I take my share of the blame in that when my daughter told me she was
> > getting a ride to school with 'Stephanie' and I consented. I assumed it
> > was another friend named Stephanie who's mother often gave them rides.
> > My daughter had zero culpability, her death was found to be caused by
> > vehicular manslaughter.

>
> Well, I'd argue that you bear no responsibility. You made your best
> call based on the information you had. She made her best call based on
> the experience with the driver as you describe. A 16 year old girl has
> no power over a stronger male at that age.
> -----
>
> - gpsman


If the passenger is egging on the driver, distracting him, getting
drunk with him on the road, etc, then yes, the passenger also should be
at fault. The only cases I've heard of where a passenger was charged
they were unreasonably influencing the situation to be dangerous.

The passenger can't reasonably be expected to stop the car they're in,
since pulling the parking brake or shifting into park can end up
fatally also. Interfering with a driver at a high speed is at least,
if not more dangerous than almost anything the driver could be doing.

Dave

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  #12  
Old December 18th 05, 08:13 AM posted to alt.sports.football.pro.oak-raiders,rec.autos.driving
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Default Officer Smiley says slow the fOck down and fOck dying young!

Dave wrote:
> gpsman wrote:
>
>>Izzy wrote:
>>
>>>gpsman wrote:

>>
>>>>A passenger is responsible for their own safety in circumstances such
>>>>as this. This includes the decision to ride with an idiot (or drunk)
>>>>or continuing to ride with same. Reaching over to switch off the
>>>>engine is not considered unreasonable nor is calling 911 to report a
>>>>"kidnapping". I've seen the result of civil litigation in this
>>>>instance.
>>>>-----
>>>
>>>For you to find that any passenger in a crash has culpability without
>>>proof is absolutely ridiculous. It takes 10 pounds of pressure with a
>>>foot to accelerate a car to terminal velocity. Apart from expressing a
>>>strong desire for the driver to cease their actions, a passenger is
>>>completely at the driver's mercy. To attempt to physically stop the
>>>driver creates even more danger because you do not know the outcome of
>>>their present actions.

>>
>>Well... it's not me who decided that the passenger can carry some
>>responsibility for a driver's behavior. I am but a reporter of what I
>>have observed the law has found. This incident, involving two grown
>>men, can not be considered parallel with your experience.
>>
>>
>>>When my 16-year old daughter climbed into a car three years ago for a
>>>ride to school, she died screaming at the driver of that car to slow
>>>down just before they hit an oak tree killing the driver, my daughter,
>>>and leaving a boy otherwise uninjured, with emotional scars he heavily
>>>carries to this day.

>>
>>I'm sorry for your loss...
>>
>>
>>>The 'trusted' driver had given numerous kids rides home and to practice
>>>without showing signs of this type of behavior to any of the kids who
>>>were in that close circle. It doesn't have to be premeditated, or for
>>>the driver to have a track record for these tragedies to happen.
>>>
>>>I take my share of the blame in that when my daughter told me she was
>>>getting a ride to school with 'Stephanie' and I consented. I assumed it
>>>was another friend named Stephanie who's mother often gave them rides.
>>>My daughter had zero culpability, her death was found to be caused by
>>>vehicular manslaughter.

>>
>>Well, I'd argue that you bear no responsibility. You made your best
>>call based on the information you had. She made her best call based on
>>the experience with the driver as you describe. A 16 year old girl has
>>no power over a stronger male at that age.
>> -----
>>
>>- gpsman

>
>
> If the passenger is egging on the driver, distracting him, getting
> drunk with him on the road, etc, then yes, the passenger also should be
> at fault. The only cases I've heard of where a passenger was charged
> they were unreasonably influencing the situation to be dangerous.
>
> The passenger can't reasonably be expected to stop the car they're in,
> since pulling the parking brake or shifting into park can end up
> fatally also. Interfering with a driver at a high speed is at least,
> if not more dangerous than almost anything the driver could be doing.
>
> Dave
>

Of course a passenger can be culpable, it's common sense. But that only
comes with evidence. Since both occupants are dead there's no way to
tell. Worse thing that can be found will come out in the tox screen.
Part II is the seatbelt issue.

But to make a statement about Russell's culpability before any facts are
presented is tremendously unfair to a dead man.
  #13  
Old December 20th 05, 12:25 AM posted to alt.sports.football.pro.oak-raiders,rec.autos.driving
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Default Officer Smiley says slow the fOck down and fOck dying young!

Dave wrote: <brevity snip>
>
> If the passenger is egging on the driver, distracting him, getting
> drunk with him on the road, etc, then yes, the passenger also should be
> at fault. The only cases I've heard of where a passenger was charged
> they were unreasonably influencing the situation to be dangerous.


Think "told you to jump off a bridge".

> The passenger can't reasonably be expected to stop the car they're in,
> since pulling the parking brake or shifting into park can end up
> fatally also. Interfering with a driver at a high speed is at least,
> if not more dangerous than almost anything the driver could be doing.


Yeah, you'd think not. But the court may find that someone driving
like a lunatic anyway won't be any more dangerous if you reach over and
turn the key and hold it in the off position (shoving it into park
won't do **** except make some noise).
> -----


- gpsman

 




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