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Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament



 
 
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  #61  
Old November 25th 05, 05:20 AM posted to alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.gm,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.chrysler
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Default Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament



Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> "Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>OK I was not entirely correct. They would NOT need to design a trailer

>
> for
>
>>the LA batteries, they will need to design one for the LA batteries AND an
>>engine driven generator. Ask Mr. Ohms this question. Why are the 12v
>>battery and the starter in my V8 Lincoln so much larger then the ones in a
>>motorcycle, neither one of which needs to motivates the vehicle in

>
> question?
>
>>Why don't they just use 8 AAA batteries and a starter the size of a
>>windshield wiper motor?
>>

>
>
> If AAA carbon batteries could supply the high current needed they would do
> it, but if that was the case AAA batteries would be somewhat dangerous to
> use
> in consumer applications.
>
> You can take 8 AAA nicads, fully charged, and draw an arc with them, though.
> (OK, a small one)
>
> Ted



Hi...

If one is foolish enough to put 4 AA nimh's in their pocket while
bike riding with their grand daughter, they can burn their leg
terribly painfully, leaving a bad scar

Don't ask me how I know that, eh?


Ads
  #62  
Old November 25th 05, 11:36 AM posted to alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.gm,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.chrysler
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Default Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament


"Whoever" > wrote in message
caldomain...
>
>
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2005, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
> >
> > The significant thing here is that in the Prius or other hybrid you
> > have a complete vehicle chassis with an interior, carpet, seats,
> > etc. and powertrain that is fully electric. 80% of the work is done
> > for you in building an electric car, all you have to do is gut the
> > gas engine and traction battery and the Toyota computer, and
> > put your own batteries in, configured to supply the power that
> > the Toyota traction motor requires, and add a charger.
> >

> A group of researchers built an interesting mod to a Prius (or some other
> hybrid). They added more batteries - but not enough for a long range --
> and a charger.
>
> The result was a vehicle that could cope with a short commute using energy
> from the overnight charge, while long distances could also be achieved
> through the gas engine. The overall fuel economy (and vehicle cost) was
> significantly greater than that of the original hybrid, while the range
> was grater than that of a 100% battery vehicle.


Yes, that was the http://www.edrivesystems.com/ link that I already posted.

Ted


  #63  
Old November 25th 05, 03:58 PM posted to alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.gm,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.chrysler
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Default Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

Ken Weitzel wrote:

> If one is foolish enough to put 4 AA nimh's in their pocket while
> bike riding with their grand daughter, they can burn their leg
> terribly painfully, leaving a bad scar
>
> Don't ask me how I know that, eh?


To paraphrase Mae West: "Is that a pair of C-cells in your pocket or are
you just happy to see me?"

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
  #64  
Old November 25th 05, 04:03 PM posted to alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.gm,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.chrysler
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Default Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

Would the pull cord be long enough to start the motor from inside the car?
LOL

mike


"Ken Weitzel" > wrote in message
news:Cgwhf.607144$1i.367415@pd7tw2no...
>
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>
>> OK I was not entirely correct. They would NOT need to design a trailer
>> for the LA batteries, they will need to design one for the LA batteries
>> AND an engine driven generator. Ask Mr. Ohms this question. Why are the
>> 12v battery and the starter in my V8 Lincoln so much larger then the ones
>> in a motorcycle, neither one of which needs to motivates the vehicle in
>> question? Why don't they just use 8 AAA batteries and a starter the size
>> of a windshield wiper motor?
>>
>>
>> mike

>
> Yes! And a recoil starter, just like on my snowblower for when the
> batteries get weak!
>
> Ken
>
>
>



  #65  
Old November 25th 05, 04:27 PM posted to alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.gm,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.chrysler
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Default Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

Mike Hunter wrote:

> Would the pull cord be long enough to start the motor from inside the car?
> LOL
>
> mike


Heh heh! I don't know if the big diesel manufacturers still do this,
but when I was a kid, I remember being told (probably by my dad) that
the Caterpillar scraper engines used small gasoline engines (with their
own electric starter of course) to start the main engine. Not sure if
the starter engines were one lungers or something bigger. I think also,
in some large engines, electric motors spin up a flywheel to start a
larger main engine (some WWII aircraft engines sound as if they use such
a system).

Theoretically you could probably transfer the total energy of a few C-
or D- cells into such a flywheel system (or a large capacitor for that
matter) over a minute or two - use them once, then throw them away. Not
sure if a handful of AA's have the total energy necessary. "Give me a
big enough lever and i can move the earth."

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
  #66  
Old November 25th 05, 05:28 PM posted to alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.gm,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.chrysler
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Default Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

Bill Putney wrote:
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>
>> Would the pull cord be long enough to start the motor from inside the car?
>> LOL
>>
>> mike

>
> Heh heh! I don't know if the big diesel manufacturers still do this,
> but when I was a kid, I remember being told (probably by my dad) that
> the Caterpillar scraper engines used small gasoline engines (with their
> own electric starter of course) to start the main engine. Not sure if
> the starter engines were one lungers or something bigger. I think also,
> in some large engines, electric motors spin up a flywheel to start a
> larger main engine (some WWII aircraft engines sound as if they use such
> a system).
>
> Theoretically you could probably transfer the total energy of a few C-
> or D- cells into such a flywheel system (or a large capacitor for that
> matter) over a minute or two - use them once, then throw them away. Not
> sure if a handful of AA's have the total energy necessary. "Give me a
> big enough lever and i can move the earth."


Google for "Coffman Cartridge"

http://www.sjvls.org/bens/bf010cs.htm
  #67  
Old November 25th 05, 09:34 PM posted to alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.gm,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.chrysler
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Posts: n/a
Default Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

What will you use for a fulcrum?

mike

"Mark Olson" > wrote in message
...
> Bill Putney wrote:
>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>
>>> Would the pull cord be long enough to start the motor from inside the
>>> car? LOL
>>>
>>> mike

>>
>> Heh heh! I don't know if the big diesel manufacturers still do this, but
>> when I was a kid, I remember being told (probably by my dad) that the
>> Caterpillar scraper engines used small gasoline engines (with their own
>> electric starter of course) to start the main engine. Not sure if the
>> starter engines were one lungers or something bigger. I think also, in
>> some large engines, electric motors spin up a flywheel to start a larger
>> main engine (some WWII aircraft engines sound as if they use such a
>> system).
>>
>> Theoretically you could probably transfer the total energy of a few C- or
>> D- cells into such a flywheel system (or a large capacitor for that
>> matter) over a minute or two - use them once, then throw them away. Not
>> sure if a handful of AA's have the total energy necessary. "Give me a big
>> enough lever and i can move the earth."

>
> Google for "Coffman Cartridge"
>
> http://www.sjvls.org/bens/bf010cs.htm



  #68  
Old November 26th 05, 01:20 AM posted to alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.gm,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.chrysler
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Default Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament


Whoever wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2005, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
> >
> > The significant thing here is that in the Prius or other hybrid you
> > have a complete vehicle chassis with an interior, carpet, seats,
> > etc. and powertrain that is fully electric. 80% of the work is done
> > for you in building an electric car, all you have to do is gut the
> > gas engine and traction battery and the Toyota computer, and
> > put your own batteries in, configured to supply the power that
> > the Toyota traction motor requires, and add a charger.
> >

> A group of researchers built an interesting mod to a Prius (or some other
> hybrid). They added more batteries - but not enough for a long range --
> and a charger.
>
> The result was a vehicle that could cope with a short commute using energy
> from the overnight charge, while long distances could also be achieved
> through the gas engine. The overall fuel economy (and vehicle cost) was
> significantly greater than that of the original hybrid, while the range
> was grater than that of a 100% battery vehicle.


I recently saw a print article about this topic, not sure if this is
the full thing, but quite interesting to me.

http://www.sdreader.com/php/cover.ph...=1&id=20051020

"The chassis that's sitting in a workroom on the campus of San Diego
State University is painted a shade of red you'd expect to see on the
lips of an attention-starved woman. On a car, the color conjures up
speed, sass, and power. But this car's looks are deceptive. Although
it can blast from a standstill to 60 miles per hour in less than five
seconds, a single gallon of fuel can propel the vehicle 80 miles. The
engine is augmented by a battery-powered motor, which can be recharged
by plugging a cord into an ordinary wall socket. And the engine fuel?
You can run it on diesel if that's convenient. But soybean oil works
just as well."

"San Diego State University Professor Jim Burns says people have asked
him where they could buy a car like this. "Nowhere," he has to say.
When Burns and his team of engineering students designed and built the
car -- which they called the "Enigma" -- they weren't trying to develop
a commercial product. Instead they wanted to prove that it was possible
to make an automobile that used no fossil fuels, got phenomenal
mileage, and looked and performed like a race car. Four years later,
Burns and a new team of students are attempting to transform
Chevrolet's Equinox into the kind of SUV even an environmentalist could
love. Their work is part of the Challenge X competition, which is being
cosponsored by General Motors and the Department of Energy. Theirs is
one of 17 teams, and hardly among the front-runners."

The team's site is at:

http://www.engineering.sdsu.edu/~hev/index.htm

Dave

  #69  
Old November 26th 05, 02:04 AM posted to alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.gm,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.chrysler
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Default Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

Hey - haven't you ever heard the experession "Don't sweat the small
stuff"? Don't bother me with details.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')


Mike Hunter wrote:

> What will you use for a fulcrum?
>
> mike
>
> "Mark Olson" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Bill Putney wrote:
>>
>>>Mike Hunter wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Would the pull cord be long enough to start the motor from inside the
>>>>car? LOL
>>>>
>>>>mike
>>>
>>>Heh heh! I don't know if the big diesel manufacturers still do this, but
>>>when I was a kid, I remember being told (probably by my dad) that the
>>>Caterpillar scraper engines used small gasoline engines (with their own
>>>electric starter of course) to start the main engine. Not sure if the
>>>starter engines were one lungers or something bigger. I think also, in
>>>some large engines, electric motors spin up a flywheel to start a larger
>>>main engine (some WWII aircraft engines sound as if they use such a
>>>system).
>>>
>>>Theoretically you could probably transfer the total energy of a few C- or
>>>D- cells into such a flywheel system (or a large capacitor for that
>>>matter) over a minute or two - use them once, then throw them away. Not
>>>sure if a handful of AA's have the total energy necessary. "Give me a big
>>>enough lever and i can move the earth."

>>
>>Google for "Coffman Cartridge"
>>
>>http://www.sjvls.org/bens/bf010cs.htm

  #70  
Old November 26th 05, 04:12 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

Hi!

[cross-posting removed]

Bill Putney wrote:
> Heh heh! I don't know if the big diesel manufacturers still do this,
> but when I was a kid, I remember being told (probably by my dad) that
> the Caterpillar scraper engines used small gasoline engines (with their
> own electric starter of course) to start the main engine.


A combustion engine would be a poor choice for a starter,
on account of being unable to deliver torque from standstill.
Where electric motors tend to become too big when they are
made big enough to start huge combustion engines, I think
the usual choice is to start the huge engine with compressed
air. That's how they do it in Diesel locomotives, at least.

> Theoretically you could probably transfer the total energy of a few C-
> or D- cells into such a flywheel system (or a large capacitor for that
> matter) over a minute or two - use them once, then throw them away. Not
> sure if a handful of AA's have the total energy necessary. "Give me a
> big enough lever and i can move the earth."


The starter for a passenger car engine usually delivers around
1 bhp, let's say 1,500 watts (approximately, a couple hundred
either way don't matter). If I'm not totally off the tracks,
that would be around 1,000 amperes at the D-cell's 1.5 volts.
That current is needed for a few seconds to start a car, which
means that you need something like 1,000/3,600 amp-hours, or
0.28 amp-hours, to do that. A good-sized modern rechargeable
battery will give you a couple thousand mAh, so in theory it
should contain enough juice to start a car.

However, you cannot extract those couple thousand mAh anywhere
near fast enough even to spin up a flywheel (which has its
own losses from friction during the spin-up time), let alone
to start the car directly. Batteries don't like being drained
quickly, and give only a fraction of their nominal power when
mistreated that way. You might be able to compress enough air
from the juice of a couple of small batteries to start the
engine that way, but if you're prepared to have a compressor
and compressed-air starting system on board, it would be much
easier to compress said air with the car's own supply of
energy prior to shutting down the engine instead. It would,
however, make a fine emergency starter: all you need is a
foot pump and a little time, and off you go. Wait, am I
hallucinating, or do I really remember that sometime in the
early days of the horseless carriage, some engines really were
started like this?

Yours,
Erik.
--
"People who're going to be using electricity for heating, anyway, might as
well leave their PCs on all the time, since they're just as efficient at
warming up the air, but do something useful with the power as well."
-- http://www.dansdata.com/danletters010.htm
 




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