How to drive a race car without spinning out?

Hi,

I'm wondering if someone can point me in the right direction on the
above topic. Some simlulators aren't so bad because you can turn on
stability / traction aids (like in GTR) but other programs like GPL
don't seem to have such things. I'd really like to be able to drive a
simlated race car without the aids on and without spinning around all
over the place, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I'm guessing the
best way would be to take it real slow and gradually increase the
pace? Is this what real race drivers do? Is there any doco around the
internet that explains things clearly?

The car racing simlators I have so far are GTR, GPL, and NR2003.

Regards,
Mike.

"Mr T" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm wondering if someone can point me in the right direction on the
> above topic. Some simlulators aren't so bad because you can turn on
> stability / traction aids (like in GTR) but other programs like GPL
> don't seem to have such things. I'd really like to be able to drive a
> simlated race car without the aids on and without spinning around all
> over the place, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I'm guessing the
> best way would be to take it real slow and gradually increase the
> pace? Is this what real race drivers do? Is there any doco around the
> internet that explains things clearly?
>
> The car racing simlators I have so far are GTR, GPL, and NR2003.

Certainly this can be taught without post-graduate study in vehicle
dynamics.

To state the obvious, the rear spins around because it destabilized. A
reasonably well setup car will tend toward neutral. This also means you can
force over- and understeer rather easily with weight transfer. Transferring
too much weight to the front in a turn will destabilize the rear. The end
result, as you now know, is a spin.

Other things can destabilize the rear. A harsh gear shift. Rough road
surface. Too eager on the gas. You'll just have to learn to drive it. Get
some weight back on the rear with gas. Slow sooner so you can do so. Learn
what neutral throttle means.

If it really is too loose, tends too much toward oversteer, learn to adjust
the front/rear cornering stiffness. Whole books can be written on that.
You'll find whole books and too many web articles on that. Chances are good
that the default setups already tend toward understeer, not oversteer. Trust
for the moment that it's supposed to be like that, and should be even
looser. Just focus on learning to drive it. If it drives like your
Oldsmobile, it won't be fast on the track. The best thing you can do right
now is to turn *off* the driver aids, and learn to drive it. Speed will come
by itself.

"Mr T" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm wondering if someone can point me in the right direction on the
> above topic. Some simlulators aren't so bad because you can turn on
> stability / traction aids (like in GTR) but other programs like GPL
> don't seem to have such things. I'd really like to be able to drive a
> simlated race car without the aids on and without spinning around all
> over the place, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I'm guessing the
> best way would be to take it real slow and gradually increase the
> pace? Is this what real race drivers do? Is there any doco around the
> internet that explains things clearly?
>
> The car racing simlators I have so far are GTR, GPL, and NR2003.
>
> Regards,
> Mike.
>

Many years ago in SCCA driving school (I had a TR3) the instructor told
me to do all my slowing down (downshifting/braking) before entering the turn
and then add acceleration as you exit the apex. This doesn't mean to floor
it all at once, but gradually accelerate and eventually you will know how
your particular car reacts. The TR3 had a tendency to "push" or understeer
on entry so a bit of trailbraking on entry kicked the rear out a bit and got
me pointed in the right direction. All these things relate to sims too. Find
one car, then learn it. GTR2 and rfactor seem to be fairly accutate as does
Race 07. Get your car "whoa'ed up" before the turns and let it roll through
the center and go from there.


Ed

I'll second that recommendation. It's an excellent book, fantastically
detailed, and easily the best of its kind. Sadly, it seems to be the only of
its kind, despite the number of other books written. Very highly
recommended.

http://www.amazon.com/Going-Faster-M...62/ref=ed_oe_p



"Uwe Schürkamp" > wrote in message
...
> Hey Mike,
>
> may I suggest you buy a copy of the official Skip Barber manual called
> "Going faster - mastering the art of race car driving". Most of the
> stuff in there is applicable in today's sims, and also it's a great
> title full of funny quotes from the pros, so you'll have a great time
> reading it. Also, Carrol Smith's "Drive to Win" is an excellent title,
> focussing more on the setup aspect.
>
> For starters, if you spin your rear end exiting the turns, be more
> gentle on the throttle. Progression from idle to full throttle should
> take a couple of seconds, so don't just "stomp" on the throttle, but
> apply it gradually.
>
> Cheers, uwe
>
> (Not associated with Skip Barber, sadly. ;-)
>
>
>
> --
> GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On Nov 13, 10:01 am, "MikeWhy" > wrote:
> I'll second that recommendation. It's an excellent book,

I don't think you need to buy a book to drive these cars.

1) Start slow, don't jump in the GP cars right away, Trainers or
advanced trainers are there for a reason.

2) Pick a short relatively simple track (Monza or Lime Rock Park for
GPL) where you can remember what you did wrong at an individual corner
from one lap to another.

3) Concentrate on your braking points and brake pedal forces, try to
brake as hard as possible as straight as possible WITHOUT locking up
the wheels. Learn to recognize what that sounds/feels like.

4) Concentrate on turn in and apexes. When you're satisfied you got a
particular corner right try to repeat it exactly next time.

5) Ignore your lap times! Master the above and your lap times will
drop away magicly. Try to minimize your lap times without the above
and you're doomed.

In article . com>,
(Mr T) wrote:

> *From:* Mr T >
> *Date:* Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:18:32 -0000

Hi Mike....

Many years ago I wrote a guide for GPL which should be exactly what you
need.

You can find the guide he

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/petergagg/21gpltip.htm

I think it was also included on Eagle Womans website, who was a very
prominant member of the early GPL community, as she thought it was a good
guide (high praise indeed!)

Although this guide was written for GPL quite a few years ago, the basic
ideas and techniques will also work on any good simulator.

Learn to drive the car, before learning to drive the car fast, and learn
the layout of the tracks.

Ultimately, there is no quick fix or secret, it basically boils down to
practice, practice and more practice.

Good luck.

8-)

*Peter*

Mr T wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm wondering if someone can point me in the right direction on the
> above topic. Some simlulators aren't so bad because you can turn on
> stability / traction aids (like in GTR) but other programs like GPL
> don't seem to have such things. I'd really like to be able to drive a
> simlated race car without the aids on and without spinning around all
> over the place, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I'm guessing the
> best way would be to take it real slow and gradually increase the
> pace? Is this what real race drivers do? Is there any doco around the
> internet that explains things clearly?
>
> The car racing simlators I have so far are GTR, GPL, and NR2003.
>
> Regards,
> Mike.
>

Maybe you just need to lower the sensitivity of your gas pedal in the
game. If it is too sensitive then it will make you spin much easier.

All great tips for beginners. "Going Faster" is a great read and if
your interest in sim racing continues it will give
some good advice to extract a bit more speed. My number 1 rule for
beginners....no driver aids. NEVER turn them on
in the first place. (Unless you don't have a clutch of course, then
the auto clutch is acceptable.) Yes, it is frustrating
and hard to come to terms with cars like in GPL, but in the long run
your sense of achievement in first controlling the
cars successfully and then setting personal best (PB) after personal
best will far outweigh the time and effort to get
there. Sadly, only those in the sim racing genre will appreciate your
accomplishment, so don't go bragging to
co-workers about your PB at Rouen in the Lotus!

A reminder that I give to myself when starting a new sim, especially
one with tracks I have not seen before. You
CANNOT go fast until you know where you are going. You MUST learn the
tracks first before you can even
consider running anywhere near the limit (of the car or even your own
limits).

Good Luck!

On Nov 14, 10:13 am, Darus > wrote:
> All great tips for beginners. "Going Faster" is a great read and if
> your interest in sim racing continues it will give

I practiced, practiced, practiced in GPL for years and got to a
comfortable point, but a friend loaned me the Skip Barber "Going
faster - mastering the art of race car driving". I was pleasantly
surprised how much I learned from it.

It drove home the importance of concentrating on 1) line through a
corner, 2) exit speed and line exiting a corner and 3) not worrying
too much about braking until you have those other 2 things somewhat
mastered.

> It drove home the importance of concentrating on 1) line through a
> corner, 2) exit speed and line exiting a corner and 3) not worrying
> too much about braking until you have those other 2 things somewhat
> mastered.

True but for me I couldn't get my corner line/exit right until I
learned to brake consistantly otherwise my entry was all over the
place.

Oh yeah and 6) concentrate on one circuit at a time, no matter how
tempting the next new track is, pick one track master it and the car
then it will make the next track much easier to learn. I found
joining a league with a fixed schedule really helped focus my practice
efforts on the upcoming track in exclusion to all others.