A Cars forum. AutoBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AutoBanter forum » Auto makers » Honda
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Are new Hondas maintenance free?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 13th 05, 08:51 PM
yahmed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are new Hondas maintenance free?

Hi,

I recently took a test drive for a new Corolla and the dealer told me
it does not require any tuneups for next 12 years or 160000km. All you
need is regular oil changes (every 6 months or 8000km)

Instead of timing belt, it has timing chain that automatically adjust
itself with time so no replacements are required. He was not sure about
water pump.

Just wondering, if he was lying? Are there any other costs like
radiator fluid chages etc? (I think its a question for Toyota group)

Now I am curious does Civic also comes with these features?

Thanks,

Ads
  #2  
Old May 13th 05, 08:59 PM
S.S.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

yahmed wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I recently took a test drive for a new Corolla and the dealer told me
> it does not require any tuneups for next 12 years or 160000km. All you
> need is regular oil changes (every 6 months or 8000km)
>
> Instead of timing belt, it has timing chain that automatically adjust
> itself with time so no replacements are required. He was not sure about
> water pump.
>
> Just wondering, if he was lying? Are there any other costs like
> radiator fluid chages etc? (I think its a question for Toyota group)
>
> Now I am curious does Civic also comes with these features?
>
> Thanks,


Look, NO car is maintenance free. All cars, including Honda and Toyota,
require regular maintenance including fluid changes and replacement of
normal wear-and-tear items (e.g. brake pads). The difference is that Hondas
and Toyotas experience less problems with non-routine items than other
manufacturers, the big 3 in particular.

The Civic may cost a little more to maintain in the long run than the
Corolla solely because of having to replace the timing belt on the Civic,
but otherwise, the maintenance on both is about the same.
  #3  
Old May 13th 05, 10:16 PM
zZero
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have mine repainted every thirty years even if it doesn't need it.

  #4  
Old May 13th 05, 11:38 PM
jim beam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

yahmed wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently took a test drive for a new Corolla and the dealer told me
> it does not require any tuneups for next 12 years or 160000km. All you
> need is regular oil changes (every 6 months or 8000km)
>
> Instead of timing belt, it has timing chain that automatically adjust
> itself with time so no replacements are required. He was not sure about
> water pump.
>
> Just wondering, if he was lying? Are there any other costs like
> radiator fluid chages etc? (I think its a question for Toyota group)
>
> Now I am curious does Civic also comes with these features?
>
> Thanks,
>

yes, the honda has the same "tuneup" schedule of 100,000 miles, but a
longer oil change interval of 12,000 miles, iirc. check the owners
manual. i expect all other operating factors to be similar.

timing chains have a small advantage on reliability, but are much
inferior in terms of timing drift caused by wear.

  #5  
Old May 14th 05, 12:15 AM
Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article . com>,
"yahmed" > wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I recently took a test drive for a new Corolla and the dealer told me
> it does not require any tuneups for next 12 years or 160000km. All you
> need is regular oil changes (every 6 months or 8000km)
>
> Instead of timing belt, it has timing chain that automatically adjust
> itself with time so no replacements are required. He was not sure about
> water pump.
>
> Just wondering, if he was lying? Are there any other costs like
> radiator fluid chages etc? (I think its a question for Toyota group)
>
> Now I am curious does Civic also comes with these features?
>
> Thanks,


New car dealer want to sell as many new cars as possible. It should not
shock you or anyone else that car companies try to make customers believe
that their vehicles will last forever without ever needing any major
service. Most of the people in this newsgroup know that we need to service
our vehicles if we want to make them run 200,000 miles.

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.



  #6  
Old May 14th 05, 06:24 PM
Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, "Elmo P.
Shagnasty" > wrote:

> In article . com>,
> "yahmed" > wrote:
>
> > Instead of timing belt, it has timing chain that automatically adjust
> > itself with time so no replacements are required.

>
> Don't believe that. Timing chains do require replacement as well.
>
> Ask him what happens if the timing chain breaks. Does the engine trash
> itself, or not? I think Toyota's are the non-interference type which
> don't trash themselves. At any rate, that's the important question. It
> doesn't matter if it's a belt or a chain. There's still chance for
> breaking, and there's still a requirement to change (although a chain
> *should* go much farther in theory).


Great post. It's my opinion that a broken timing belt would in most cases
do less damage to an engine than a broken chain. However, if you change
the timing belt or timing chain about every 50,000 to 60,000 miles--it's
very likely that the owner of the car would never have to worry about the
consequences of a broken chain or belt.

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.



  #7  
Old May 14th 05, 10:47 PM
jim beam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article >,
> (Jason) wrote:
>
>
>>>Ask him what happens if the timing chain breaks. Does the engine trash
>>>itself, or not? I think Toyota's are the non-interference type which
>>>don't trash themselves. At any rate, that's the important question. It
>>>doesn't matter if it's a belt or a chain. There's still chance for
>>>breaking, and there's still a requirement to change (although a chain
>>>*should* go much farther in theory).

>>
>>Great post. It's my opinion that a broken timing belt would in most cases
>>do less damage to an engine than a broken chain.

>
>
> That depends on whether the engine is an interference design or a
> non-interference design.
>
> It's not just the physical belt or chain whipping around in there; it's
> the pistons and valves you have to worry about.
>
> With Honda, the valves go down inside the combustion chamber. If the
> timing belt or chain breaks, the valves stay down there when the piston
> comes back up to top--and all hell breaks loose when they meet. That's
> called "interference".
>
> If the engine is designed, however, such that the valves don't go down
> inside the combustion chamber, but rather stay outside the combustion
> chamber, it doesn't matter what happens when the belt or chain breaks.
> The engine quits running, but a simple belt/chain replacement fixes the
> problem. No trashed engine to worry about.


but you don't have the performance to worry about either - as a general
rule at any rate. in principle, a higher compression ratio and more
aggressive valve timing/higher lift cams both contribute to better
performance, but require "interference". so it's a trade-off. other
factors such as combustion chamber design, port/valve design, can help
produce a high compression non-interference engine, but what's good for
non-interference tends to be less good for chamber design, i.e.
efficiency, emissions, detonation tendency, etc. did i mention that
it's a trade-off?

>
> As far as the earlier comment regarding timing chains stretching, that
> happened to my brother's 92 Infiniti Q45. He had to replace both timing
> chains, at some unholy cost ($2700 comes to mind). It wasn't that they
> broke, but rather that they had stretched far enough out of spec.


belts are good. people whine about cost of preventive maintenance, but
that's a function of dealer gouging, not design principle. it doesn't
take 4 hours to change a belt on a civic, regardless of what it says on
the invoice.

  #8  
Old May 15th 05, 05:02 AM
FanJet
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"jim beam" > wrote in message
...
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article >,
>> (Jason) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Ask him what happens if the timing chain breaks. Does the engine trash
>>>>itself, or not? I think Toyota's are the non-interference type which
>>>>don't trash themselves. At any rate, that's the important question. It
>>>>doesn't matter if it's a belt or a chain. There's still chance for
>>>>breaking, and there's still a requirement to change (although a chain
>>>>*should* go much farther in theory).
>>>
>>>Great post. It's my opinion that a broken timing belt would in most cases
>>>do less damage to an engine than a broken chain.

>>
>>
>> That depends on whether the engine is an interference design or a
>> non-interference design.
>>
>> It's not just the physical belt or chain whipping around in there; it's
>> the pistons and valves you have to worry about.
>>
>> With Honda, the valves go down inside the combustion chamber. If the
>> timing belt or chain breaks, the valves stay down there when the piston
>> comes back up to top--and all hell breaks loose when they meet. That's
>> called "interference".
>>
>> If the engine is designed, however, such that the valves don't go down
>> inside the combustion chamber, but rather stay outside the combustion
>> chamber, it doesn't matter what happens when the belt or chain breaks.
>> The engine quits running, but a simple belt/chain replacement fixes the
>> problem. No trashed engine to worry about.

>
> but you don't have the performance to worry about either - as a general
> rule at any rate. in principle, a higher compression ratio and more
> aggressive valve timing/higher lift cams both contribute to better
> performance, but require "interference". so it's a trade-off. other
> factors such as combustion chamber design, port/valve design, can help
> produce a high compression non-interference engine, but what's good for
> non-interference tends to be less good for chamber design, i.e.
> efficiency, emissions, detonation tendency, etc. did i mention that it's
> a trade-off?
>
>>
>> As far as the earlier comment regarding timing chains stretching, that
>> happened to my brother's 92 Infiniti Q45. He had to replace both timing
>> chains, at some unholy cost ($2700 comes to mind). It wasn't that they
>> broke, but rather that they had stretched far enough out of spec.

>
> belts are good. people whine about cost of preventive maintenance, but
> that's a function of dealer gouging, not design principle. it doesn't
> take 4 hours to change a belt on a civic, regardless of what it says on
> the invoice.


Belts are certainly good for $dealerships$. Their replacement isn't
preventive maintenance, it's scheduled maintenance - big difference. If
Honda used a decent chain, the customer wouldn't need to deal with it. The
Q45 issue was an anomaly. I'm sure there's the occasional Honda spun bearing
or some other oddity. Maybe the customer ought to replace them every 80K.



  #9  
Old May 15th 05, 05:13 AM
jim beam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

FanJet wrote:
> "jim beam" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> (Jason) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Ask him what happens if the timing chain breaks. Does the engine trash
>>>>>itself, or not? I think Toyota's are the non-interference type which
>>>>>don't trash themselves. At any rate, that's the important question. It
>>>>>doesn't matter if it's a belt or a chain. There's still chance for
>>>>>breaking, and there's still a requirement to change (although a chain
>>>>>*should* go much farther in theory).
>>>>
>>>>Great post. It's my opinion that a broken timing belt would in most cases
>>>>do less damage to an engine than a broken chain.
>>>
>>>
>>>That depends on whether the engine is an interference design or a
>>>non-interference design.
>>>
>>>It's not just the physical belt or chain whipping around in there; it's
>>>the pistons and valves you have to worry about.
>>>
>>>With Honda, the valves go down inside the combustion chamber. If the
>>>timing belt or chain breaks, the valves stay down there when the piston
>>>comes back up to top--and all hell breaks loose when they meet. That's
>>>called "interference".
>>>
>>>If the engine is designed, however, such that the valves don't go down
>>>inside the combustion chamber, but rather stay outside the combustion
>>>chamber, it doesn't matter what happens when the belt or chain breaks.
>>>The engine quits running, but a simple belt/chain replacement fixes the
>>>problem. No trashed engine to worry about.

>>
>>but you don't have the performance to worry about either - as a general
>>rule at any rate. in principle, a higher compression ratio and more
>>aggressive valve timing/higher lift cams both contribute to better
>>performance, but require "interference". so it's a trade-off. other
>>factors such as combustion chamber design, port/valve design, can help
>>produce a high compression non-interference engine, but what's good for
>>non-interference tends to be less good for chamber design, i.e.
>>efficiency, emissions, detonation tendency, etc. did i mention that it's
>>a trade-off?
>>
>>
>>>As far as the earlier comment regarding timing chains stretching, that
>>>happened to my brother's 92 Infiniti Q45. He had to replace both timing
>>>chains, at some unholy cost ($2700 comes to mind). It wasn't that they
>>>broke, but rather that they had stretched far enough out of spec.

>>
>>belts are good. people whine about cost of preventive maintenance, but
>>that's a function of dealer gouging, not design principle. it doesn't
>>take 4 hours to change a belt on a civic, regardless of what it says on
>>the invoice.

>
>
> Belts are certainly good for $dealerships$. Their replacement isn't
> preventive maintenance, it's scheduled maintenance - big difference. If
> Honda used a decent chain, the customer wouldn't need to deal with it. The
> Q45 issue was an anomaly. I'm sure there's the occasional Honda spun bearing
> or some other oddity. Maybe the customer ought to replace them every 80K.


if you drive some piece of v8 detroit iron with less than 40 bhp per
liter, you're not going to notice much difference with a bit of chain
stretch. and cam timing errors in excess of 10 degrees of crankshaft
are not unknown. belts don't stretch so they remain dead-on with timing
right up to replacement day. you want a high performance engine?

  #10  
Old May 15th 05, 06:03 AM
SoCalMike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

jim beam wrote:
> if you drive some piece of v8 detroit iron with less than 40 bhp per
> liter, you're not going to notice much difference with a bit of chain
> stretch. and cam timing errors in excess of 10 degrees of crankshaft
> are not unknown. belts don't stretch so they remain dead-on with timing
> right up to replacement day. you want a high performance engine?


sure! you gonna put one in my 98 civic CX?
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Your maintenance-free battery ISN'T maintenance free ! Lawrence Glickman Technology 12 March 7th 05 10:24 PM
Cars free for qualified drivers ... Mahesh 4x4 10 April 1st 04 08:01 AM
Cars free for qualified drivers ... Mahesh General 5 April 1st 04 08:01 AM
Fleet Maintenance Pro v9.0.19 Enterprise 100 users, STRACfastMaintenance 2.5c, Auto Maintenance Pro v9.0 Professional Incl Keygen,various other AUTO and BOAT Maintenance progs ... [email protected], [email protected] Antique cars 0 October 23rd 03 09:08 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 AutoBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.