A world without GPL?????????

jason moyer wrote:

> The really fast guys in GPL don't drive anything like most people think
> the really fast guys in GPL drive. For some reason there's this
> misconception that it's fast in GPL to hang the ass out everywhere and
> abuse the car, when the really fast guys keep the car going forward
> with a minimum of sliding.

As a follow up, I should note that I'm not trying to apologize for
GPL's physics deficiencies. It's definitely too easy to drive the car
at ridiculous slip angles and you can drive moderately fast in a
totally unrealistic manner. Ultimately the really fast guys are the
same as the really fast guys in any other sim (rfactor) included in
that it's all about entry/apex/exit and keeping the car moving forward.

> The really fast guys in GPL don't drive anything like most people think
> the really fast guys in GPL drive. For some reason there's this
> misconception that it's fast in GPL to hang the ass out everywhere and
> abuse the car, when the really fast guys keep the car going forward
> with a minimum of sliding.

Hanging the rear is the fast way to go though.

Take a look at this description of an old (pre-downforce) racing
technique: http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/art_of_driving.htm, look
at the 4 wheel drift page.

The slip angles for maximum grip is around 4 to 5 degrees for modern
bias play slicks, and may have been even higher for the tires of
the cars used for 1967 F1 racing. This gives the visual appearance
that the car is drifting, but it's just the slip angle the tires
need to corner well.

The main thing about GPL is the amount of steering inputs it takes
to control the car while getting a fast time. Driver induced
understeer is often used when slowing to keep the car from spinning,
while normal counter-steering is used when acceleration out of
a corner. In this video of a Greg Stewart hot lap at Rouen, just
after the 2nd hairpin (a 90 degree turn to the left), there are
two right turns made under power and most of the time the steering
wheel is turned left.

http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/gplrngs.wmv

Jeff Reid wrote:

> In this video of a Greg Stewart hot lap at Rouen, just
> after the 2nd hairpin (a 90 degree turn to the left), there are
> two right turns made under power and most of the time the steering
> wheel is turned left.
>
> http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/gplrngs.wmv

Sure he's using opposite lock, but the car still isn't sliding much.
I've seen in car videos of Michael Schumacher using that much opposite
lock in a modern high-downforce F1 car. The thing that's unrealistic
in GPL is that you can fly into a turn with the car beyond a 45 degree
angle to the direction of travel and still pull it back and carry on at
a moderate speed. Doing that is slow, but you can still easily beat
the (incredibly slow) GPL benchmarks driving like that, so everyone
thinks it's fast.

>> In this video of a Greg Stewart hot lap at Rouen, just
>> after the 2nd hairpin (a 90 degree turn to the left), there are
>> two right turns made under power and most of the time the steering
>> wheel is turned left.
>>
>> http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/gplrngs.wmv
>
> Sure he's using opposite lock, but the car still isn't sliding much.
> I've seen in car videos of Michael Schumacher using that much opposite
> lock in a modern high-downforce F1 car. The thing that's unrealistic
> in GPL is that you can fly into a turn with the car beyond a 45 degree
> angle to the direction of travel and still pull it back and carry on at
> a moderate speed. Doing that is slow, but you can still easily beat
> the (incredibly slow) GPL benchmarks driving like that, so everyone
> thinks it's fast.

Ok, I didn't know how far sideways you meant. Regarding the GPL
benchmarks, Kyalami is pretty tough, and it takes quite a while to learn
the ring, although I finally got down to a 8:15.32. Some players have
posted it's taken them several years to go negative on the GPL Rank,
which seems challenging enough to me. I spent about 9 months on and
off doing this.

"ymenard" > wrote in message
. ..
> >"Byron Forbes" > wrote With rFactor now the most
> >central part of sim racing
>
>
>
> Word of mouth alone is not enough to bring people into the multi rooms,
> especially when the only promotion possible is within the very little
> circle of the internet. Accept it, the multi-room is very empty. The
> same thing that happened to flight-sims a couple of years ago is happening
> right now in simracing.
>
>
> I see absolutely no true momentum for rFactor. I see the same thing for
> it that happened to every previous ISI-based sim : 6 months of pleasure,
> plenty of possibilities non-fulfilled, then we'll move to something else.
>
>
> Its like that girlfriend you know is too-good-to-be-true.
>

I guess only future mods, tracks and time will tell.

Sounds like the world is over the novelty of computer gaming and the
internet but there's no doubt the right products will bring them back. I
think a huge step forward would be the policing of all servers in all pickup
races even. Racecast is a step in the right direction but would be a lot
more meaningful with policing and a Rank ladder.

>"Byron Forbes" > wrote
>> Its like that girlfriend you know is too-good-to-be-true.
>>
>
> I guess only future mods, tracks and time will tell.


You know there's a major problem when we have to say "time will tell" about
the quality of a simulation. We said the same about C:PR half a decade ago.

There's like a hundred *quality* road courses for NR2003, why should we
switch when all that there is... is "hope" for the future based only on what
the community will bring to us. Until that I'll be doing other sims. If
people wake up and start really showing mod interest in rFactor, people will
flock it. Not the opposite.


There's a reason why GPL was mod'ed that much : passion. I'm not so sure
the rFactor community is as passionnate as the GPL one, considering it
already lacks the historical values of tracks, cars and drivers that made
people skip work just to race the Lotus one more lap around Spa. There's no
such thing in rFactor.. NR2003's race on sunday/sim' it the rest of the
week and the tight multiplayer/community tools made the people passionate to
mod it. So what makes the people passionate for rFactor? It's all "great
possibilities", only that.






--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> There's a reason why GPL was mod'ed that much : passion. I'm not so
> sure
> the rFactor community is as passionnate as the GPL one, considering it
> already lacks the historical values of tracks, cars and drivers that made
> people skip work just to race the Lotus one more lap around Spa.
> There's no
> such thing in rFactor.. NR2003's race on sunday/sim' it the rest of the
> week and the tight multiplayer/community tools made the people
> passionate to
> mod it. So what makes the people passionate for rFactor? It's all
> "great
> possibilities", only that.

Please, there's more passionate rFactor modders around than there's ever
been for another sim. Wake up and smell the coffee.

In article >,
says...
>
> Wake up and smell the coffee.
>

Only if it has been fresh roasted to just past 2nd crack from green
coffee beans in a popcorn popper, let to sit for 24-48 hours
(ventilated), ground with a burr type grinder, and brewed with 95-98C
filtered water in a French press.



I just spent the weekend reading up on making good coffee.


MRSisson
--
LOAD "GPL",8

SEARCHING FOR GPL
LOADING
READY.
RUN

"Steve Simpson" > wrote in message
news
>> There's a reason why GPL was mod'ed that much : passion. I'm not so
>> sure
>> the rFactor community is as passionnate as the GPL one, considering it
>> already lacks the historical values of tracks, cars and drivers that made
>> people skip work just to race the Lotus one more lap around Spa.
>> There's no
>> such thing in rFactor.. NR2003's race on sunday/sim' it the rest of the
>> week and the tight multiplayer/community tools made the people
>> passionate to
>> mod it. So what makes the people passionate for rFactor? It's all
>> "great
>> possibilities", only that.
>
> Please, there's more passionate rFactor modders around than there's ever
> been for another sim. Wake up and smell the coffee.

not wanting to start an arguement

I loved gpl. When it first came out, I used to full season full length
races offline. did the odd bit of online racing, but found the pickup races
not worth it. (some were good and can remember running against some of the
names here in RAS.) But my work hours at the time prohibited me from
joining a league.

No disrespect for the people that did marvels with gpl. But most, not all,
of the mods to gpl, where texture, or skinning if you like.

When referring to "modding" a game, it usually means whole new cars and
physics models, not just tracks.

Yes the gpl community is passionate about what they do. But theres a
sizable modding community that was gearing up, just waiting for the release
of rFactor. You've got the Pits getting involved. ORSM who did the V8
Supercars for f1c, are in the process of making the same mod for rF. If RSC
is working, have a look at the mod teams there in the rFactor Modding sub
forum.

head over to the Pits. since the release of Dave Noonan's tools, theres
some old gpl and n2k3 track editors moving on to learning how to work with
rF. I know a few of those guys. They're just as passionate about making
tracks for rF as they were for any other sim.

just my 0.02 worth

cheers

steve

In article >,
(Steve Whitty) wrote:

> When referring to "modding" a game, it usually means whole new cars
> and physics models, not just tracks.

The great thing about GPL (until engine swapping and other messing about
muddied the water later on) was that the physics was fixed. You could mess
with the setups and swap cars in search of elusive speed, but the core sim
(and AI for offline) was narrow, involving, and believable enough to allow
us to just get on with the racing and forget what might be coming. I
wasn't waiting for a new sim or mod or track or tweak, I was just having a
great time!

Maybe it's an old dog/new tricks thing, but I long for a simpler life and
a single sim... maybe an A1 GP style sim project that frees us from
car/sim/mod choices and allows us to just race again.

Andrew McP... still secretly longing for GPL2 I suppose.