NR2003 Loose web setups

I haven't looked at any of the EA sims but if I understand what Bill is
saying Papy was doing their timing different to other software companies
and it shouldn't be an issue with EA. If you remember when processors went
faster than a certain speed with GPL a patch was issued to deal with it.
Clock
timing was the issue.
Bethesda when it did its Drag Racing series also got into timing issues
and they changed the way their timing was done to correct it.
Papy would have had to have gutted their whole game engine in order
to fix the issue, so they decided the problem didn't officially exist.
It's been awhile so all of the details I once knew are lost into the
ether.
But for those of you who have been around awhile you will remember the
controversy that exploded when Julian Data of BHMS hinted about the
grey areas of the original Nascar from Papyrus. Well this was one of those
grey areas.

Pete

"ymenard" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> What makes you think it would be better with that EA thingy? Has EA even
> proven anything about such things?
>
>
>
>
> --
> -- Frangois Minard <ymenard>
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...
>
>

>"JP" > wrote
> "ymenard" > wrote
>> What makes you think it would be better with that EA thingy? Has EA even
>> proven anything about such things?
>
> Fanboy Alert !



No, just an sceptical feeling, especially considering the entire history of
EA Nascar "simulations". They have proven only one thing, it's that their
entire Nascar racing line has been arcade games with little attemps to
simulate anything. Of course this time, the chances are better then ever
that history will not repeat itself, but anyway what makes you think that
such attemps to push the limit of software won't happen in EA? Nothing.


<yawn> Anyway you have no knowledge of this NG history





--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Pete" > wrote
> I haven't looked at any of the EA sims but if I understand what Bill is
> saying Papy was doing their timing different to other software companies


All companies do all their things different. Is there anything concrete
here about EA, or it's just a wishfull hope? There's going to be the SAME
attemps to cheating in any kind of software, just in a different way. So I
don't see how it's "positive". EA has never been into anti-cheating stuff
anway. They are almost the WORST offenders in that case. People try to
find faults in their software forever. Just look at their entire sporting
line, per example Madden where everybody just plays in the "grey zone" and
EA does nothing to fix it.

The "Grey zone" will always be there.


And no, Julian is no "god" or anything for saying about grey areas.
Everybody knew about it, he wasn't the first at all to talk abou tit. We
ain't stupid people.





--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"ymenard" > wrote in message
news
>
>
> All companies do all their things different. Is there anything concrete
> here about EA, or it's just a wishfull hope? There's going to be the SAME
> attemps to cheating in any kind of software, just in a different way. So
I
> don't see how it's "positive". EA has never been into anti-cheating stuff
> anway. They are almost the WORST offenders in that case. People try to
> find faults in their software forever. Just look at their entire sporting
> line, per example Madden where everybody just plays in the "grey zone" and
> EA does nothing to fix it.

Papy did nothing to fix many of the grey areas either. After dealing
with both
companies on beta problems I would say it was a wash on who was better or
worse
in regards to flaws and grey areas. Neither was great.

> The "Grey zone" will always be there.

Yes, people will always exploit and look for the holes to get an
advantage. It's
human nature.



> And no, Julian is no "god" or anything for saying about grey areas.
> Everybody knew about it, he wasn't the first at all to talk abou tit. We
> ain't stupid people.

Never said Julian was a "god". But he was the first to bring it up in
here when
everyone was pointing fingers at who was cheating. He got pillared for
admitting to
using grey areas and you were one of the worst at name calling. In fact
Frank some
people here still deny that there was any cheating going on at all.
No everyone didn't know it. And if they suspected it they didn't have a
clue on how
it was being done. In fact very few would have had the guts to admit that it
did exist.
Papy's official line was that it didn't but privately was another story.

I will be pleasantly surprised if EA brings out a quality sim. I know
that if the ex-papy
crew brings out a product that's online only and pay as you play I won't be
paying for it.
I was hoping First Racing was starting with a clean slate and would
learn from past
experiences but from what I'm hearing through the grape vine is "same old,
same old".
But we'll just have to wait and see.

By the way I'll say hi to Julian for you. LOL He'll love the "god"
comment.

>"Pete" > wrote
> Papy did nothing to fix many of the grey areas either.


They did fix many things, but other things, well cmon you know how
development companies work, and they wouldn't spend X ammount of cash,
especially a fragile one like Papyrus with a low # of employees and cash
flow, to repair something that affects a small % of all customers. Anyway,
in that aspect EA is worse as they simply don't care at all, powerful they
are, and just milk the cow.


>. Neither was great.


Exactly. So why am I labeled a fanboy when I am just severly doubting
anything by EA. WTF is the world going to when people are pro-EA instead of
the small factory of Papyrus that have gave us an incredible quality of
product over the last decade? I mean ****ing Electronic Arts, with their
slavery fascist intentions? If they barely touch NR2003 in terms of the
overall aspect of the sim (considering that NR2003 is already outdated in
many aspects, we have to consider the different timeline), you know how
sturdy it is, possible customisation, overall quality of it's game engine,
etc... I'll be surprised.

Sure it had flaws and exploits. So does any game, even the 90% rated ones.
And developpers of the 90%+ games, they can't fix them all either. Still,
don't say they didn't cared, 'cause you are comparing and putting them lower
than the KINGS of "don't care", which is Electronic Arts.


>> The "Grey zone" will always be there.
>
> Yes, people will always exploit and look for the holes to get an
> advantage. It's
> human nature.


I call it 'racing' ;-D



> I was hoping First Racing was starting with a clean slate and would
> learn from past
> experiences but from what I'm hearing through the grape vine is "same old,
> same old".

"Same old same old" = established quality at it's basis


> By the way I'll say hi to Julian for you. LOL He'll love the "god"
> comment.


Never had anything against him you know.




--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"ymenard" > wrote in message
. ..
> >"Pete" > wrote
> > Papy did nothing to fix many of the grey areas either.
>
>
> They did fix many things, but other things, well cmon you know how
> development companies work, and they wouldn't spend X ammount of cash,
> especially a fragile one like Papyrus with a low # of employees and cash
> flow, to repair something that affects a small % of all customers. Anyway,
> in that aspect EA is worse as they simply don't care at all, powerful they
> are, and just milk the cow.

<laughter>

Kind of like how in N3, the fastest way around some tracks was on the
apron. Never fixed. And so on. And nooo, Papy was never deceitful/didn't
care, did they ? LOL. "Wow, has this GPL patch changed the physics ?
Papy: NO..........um, well, yes, maybe.

Will N3 have the GPL engine ? Papy: YES........um, sorry, no.

Or how about the myriad Papy Nascar releases with no or marginal
improvements, simply to make some $ ? Nothing wrong with that, but funny
how EA gets slammed for doing it.

And so on.

I doubt if anyone is really pro-EA. It's more a matter of not using
rose-colored glasses with Papy and/or being willing to take the blinders
off.

>"JP" > wrote
> Kind of like how in N3, the fastest way around some tracks was on the
> apron. Never fixed.

Yes, it was. Nice try ommiting that EA's Nascar games had 100x times more
problems.

> Papy was never deceitful/didn't care, did they ?

They never really had the funds for it by Sierra/Vivendi/Cendant/whatever.


> Or how about the myriad Papy Nascar releases with no or marginal
> improvements, simply to make some $ ?


Compared to what EA does, they were excellenté



> Nothing wrong with that, but funny
> how EA gets slammed for doing it.

EA gets slammed for their slavery fascist ideology of gaming. Get with the
news, fellow.







--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"JP" > wrote
> Actually, it's exactly your history that produced my post. <yawn>



That's just false, or (again) you'll know that I've bashed them more than
the opposite. I just can understand how a small company like them, who
lasted more than a decade against tough competition, has given us quality
products throughout the years. And that everybody else had not, except a
few sparsely.








--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Pete" > wrote in message
news
>
> "ymenard" > wrote in message
> news
>>
>>
> Papy did nothing to fix many of the grey areas either. After dealing
> with both
> companies on beta problems I would say it was a wash on who was better or
> worse
> in regards to flaws and grey areas. Neither was great.
>

Totally agree with Pete on this.

> Yes, people will always exploit and look for the holes to get an
> advantage. It's
> human nature.
>

Yes, it is in every game. But like in golf, whose golf game do you respect
the most? The guy who cheats every time he plays or the guy who counts
every stroke like he is supposed to according to the rules? I respect those
that play by the rules and have less respect for those that cheat.


> Never said Julian was a "god". But he was the first to bring it up in
> here when
> everyone was pointing fingers at who was cheating. He got pillared for
> admitting to
> using grey areas and you were one of the worst at name calling. In fact
> Frank some
> people here still deny that there was any cheating going on at all.
> No everyone didn't know it. And if they suspected it they didn't have a
> clue on how
> it was being done. In fact very few would have had the guts to admit that
> it
> did exist.
> Papy's official line was that it didn't but privately was another story.

TOTALLY agree with Pete on this. I for one didn't know of MANY of the grey
areas until N3. Heck even then, was learning stuff until we moved to N4.
The bottom line is that certain people KNEW of the grey areas (Those that
were "in the know" at Papy) and the majority did not.


>
> I will be pleasantly surprised if EA brings out a quality sim. I know
> that if the ex-papy
> crew brings out a product that's online only and pay as you play I won't
> be
> paying for it.
> I was hoping First Racing was starting with a clean slate and would
> learn from past
> experiences but from what I'm hearing through the grape vine is "same old,
> same old".
> But we'll just have to wait and see.

I have heard the same thing unfortunately. They have some good guys
involved. Havn't always agreed with everyone, but I think guys like Nim,
have a good understanding. The only problem is that he doesn't do the
coding and it is almost like the inmates controlling the asylum.



>
> By the way I'll say hi to Julian for you. LOL He'll love the "god"
> comment.
>

Give him a good FU from Amish

Bill Bollinger
www.gsxn.com

"ymenard" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Same old same old" = established quality at it's basis


Like he said before.... PapyFanboy. Which kind of amazes me Frankie. Never
thought you were. But, I for one can say that NR2003 is not that great.
UNFORTUNATELY, you are right, I am HOPING EA comes out with something good,
because they have disappointed me before. However, just because NR2003 is
better than the lame attempts we have had before from other companies, does
not make it an excellent attempt or therefore "quality".

Bill Bollinger
www.gsxn.com