A Cars forum. AutoBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AutoBanter forum » Auto makers » Honda
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Darn! My '94 Del Sol failed the California Smog Check today



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 27th 06, 09:18 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Darn! My '94 Del Sol failed the California Smog Check today

After having passed the California smog check for 2 tests (4 years) in a
row, my stock '94 Del Sol ("S" model with 1.5L engine) failed today. :-(
It's the first time I've ever had any car fail the Smog Check, in 20 years
of living in California.

I have never made any modifications to the engine, and I take it in for
regular maintenance according to the maintenance schedule. It has been
about 6500 miles since its last oil change, and I don't use any pour-in fuel
additives. It is running normally with no noticeable engine problems.

Here in California the DMV has recently made the Smog Check test more
sophisticated, using a 'dynamometer' (treadmill) to test the car under load.
They test the car at a simulated 15mph and at 25mph. They also added a NOX
(nitrous oxide) emissions check, and that's the one that my car failed, but
only at 15mph.

As for my other emissions test results, my Del Sol had extremely low CO2,
O2, HC and CO emissions at both 15mph and 25mph, but failed the Nitrous
Oxide (NOX) test at 15mph. In fact, the NOX emission was about 3 times
higher at 15mph than at 25mph, which seems counter-intuitive. I had driven
the car at least 15 miles before arriving at the test facility, so it was
well warmed-up.

Has anyone else seen this kind of failure with an older Honda Civic or Del
Sol? If so, what was the culprit? I'm trying to get an idea how much it's
going to cost to have it fixed.

Thanks for any ideas, feedback, or sympathy. :-)

-DK

Ads
  #2  
Old January 27th 06, 01:32 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Darn! My '94 Del Sol failed the California Smog Check today

DavidK wrote:
> After having passed the California smog check for 2 tests (4 years) in a
> row, my stock '94 Del Sol ("S" model with 1.5L engine) failed today. :-(
> It's the first time I've ever had any car fail the Smog Check, in 20 years
> of living in California.
>
> I have never made any modifications to the engine, and I take it in for
> regular maintenance according to the maintenance schedule. It has been
> about 6500 miles since its last oil change, and I don't use any pour-in fuel
> additives. It is running normally with no noticeable engine problems.
>
> Here in California the DMV has recently made the Smog Check test more
> sophisticated, using a 'dynamometer' (treadmill) to test the car under load.
> They test the car at a simulated 15mph and at 25mph. They also added a NOX
> (nitrous oxide) emissions check, and that's the one that my car failed, but
> only at 15mph.
>


NOX is usually a function of the EGR valve, which your car might not
have. timing can also effect it, so id check that and replace the
plugs/plug wires/dist cap/rotor with OEM if necessary.

went through all that with a 1975 MG midget. by the time i got the EGR
unclogged, the smog pump working right, and a new $99 catalytic
converter on, it passed with flying colors. IIRC, some of the emissions
were *0*.

> As for my other emissions test results, my Del Sol had extremely low CO2,
> O2, HC and CO emissions at both 15mph and 25mph, but failed the Nitrous
> Oxide (NOX) test at 15mph. In fact, the NOX emission was about 3 times
> higher at 15mph than at 25mph, which seems counter-intuitive. I had driven
> the car at least 15 miles before arriving at the test facility, so it was
> well warmed-up.
>
> Has anyone else seen this kind of failure with an older Honda Civic or Del
> Sol? If so, what was the culprit? I'm trying to get an idea how much it's
> going to cost to have it fixed.


the O2 sensor is likely long overdue, if its never been replaced. a
place that ISNT "test only" should be able to pinpoint the exact problem.
>
> Thanks for any ideas, feedback, or sympathy. :-)
>
> -DK
>

  #3  
Old January 27th 06, 02:53 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Darn! My '94 Del Sol failed the California Smog Check today

"DavidK" > wrote in
. com:

> After having passed the California smog check for 2 tests (4 years) in
> a row, my stock '94 Del Sol ("S" model with 1.5L engine) failed today.
> :-( It's the first time I've ever had any car fail the Smog Check, in
> 20 years of living in California.




Post ALL your numbers, including the limits for your area.



>
> I have never made any modifications to the engine, and I take it in
> for regular maintenance according to the maintenance schedule. It has
> been about 6500 miles since its last oil change, and I don't use any
> pour-in fuel additives. It is running normally with no noticeable
> engine problems.
>
> Here in California the DMV has recently made the Smog Check test more
> sophisticated, using a 'dynamometer' (treadmill) to test the car under
> load. They test the car at a simulated 15mph and at 25mph. They also
> added a NOX (nitrous oxide) emissions check, and that's the one that
> my car failed, but only at 15mph.




Post ALL your numbers, including the limits for your area.



>
> As for my other emissions test results, my Del Sol had extremely low
> CO2, O2, HC and CO emissions at both 15mph and 25mph, but failed the
> Nitrous Oxide (NOX) test at 15mph. In fact, the NOX emission was
> about 3 times higher at 15mph than at 25mph, which seems
> counter-intuitive. I had driven the car at least 15 miles before
> arriving at the test facility, so it was well warmed-up.




Post ALL your numbers, including the limits for your area.

If you were extremely low in HC and CO, that suggests either you're running
hot, timing is too far advanced, or your EGR system is not working
correctly.

You cannot be extremely low in CO2 if you were extremely low in HC and CO.
If you were very low in HC and CO, that means the cat has managed to bind
its stored oxygen to the CO and HCs to make them into CO2 and water. So CO2
ought to be HIGH.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
  #4  
Old January 27th 06, 02:56 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Darn! My '94 Del Sol failed the California Smog Check today

"TeGGeR®" > wrote in
:


>
> If you were extremely low in HC and CO,




AND your NOx numbers are high, I meant to say...



> that suggests either you're
> running hot, timing is too far advanced, or your EGR system is not
> working correctly.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
  #5  
Old January 27th 06, 06:59 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Darn! My '94 Del Sol failed the California Smog Check today

Hello and thanks for all the responses. Here are all of the Emmission Test
Result numbers from my failing test report:

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Line 1:

Test=15mph
RPM=1727
%CO2 meas=15.6
%02 meas=0.0
HC (PPM) MAX=92, AVE=21, MEAS=13
CO (%) MAX=0.55, AVE=0.06, MEAS=0.03
NO (PPM) MAX=716, AVE=150, MEAS=991
FAIL
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Line 2:

RPM=1904
%CO2 meas=15.5
%02 meas=0.0
HC (PPM) MAX=57, AVE=13, MEAS=11
CO (%) MAX=0.54, AVE=0.05, MEAS=0.02
NO (PPM) MAX=764, AVE=136, MEAS=354
PASS
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

-DK


"DavidK" > wrote in message
. com...
> After having passed the California smog check for 2 tests (4 years) in a
> row, my stock '94 Del Sol ("S" model with 1.5L engine) failed today. :-(
> It's the first time I've ever had any car fail the Smog Check, in 20 years
> of living in California.
>
> I have never made any modifications to the engine, and I take it in for
> regular maintenance according to the maintenance schedule. It has been
> about 6500 miles since its last oil change, and I don't use any pour-in

fuel
> additives. It is running normally with no noticeable engine problems.
>
> Here in California the DMV has recently made the Smog Check test more
> sophisticated, using a 'dynamometer' (treadmill) to test the car under

load.
> They test the car at a simulated 15mph and at 25mph. They also added a

NOX
> (nitrous oxide) emissions check, and that's the one that my car failed,

but
> only at 15mph.
>
> As for my other emissions test results, my Del Sol had extremely low CO2,
> O2, HC and CO emissions at both 15mph and 25mph, but failed the Nitrous
> Oxide (NOX) test at 15mph. In fact, the NOX emission was about 3 times
> higher at 15mph than at 25mph, which seems counter-intuitive. I had

driven
> the car at least 15 miles before arriving at the test facility, so it was
> well warmed-up.
>
> Has anyone else seen this kind of failure with an older Honda Civic or Del
> Sol? If so, what was the culprit? I'm trying to get an idea how much

it's
> going to cost to have it fixed.
>
> Thanks for any ideas, feedback, or sympathy. :-)
>
> -DK
>


  #6  
Old January 27th 06, 07:07 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Darn! My '94 Del Sol failed the California Smog Check today

For the Line 2 numbers, I forgot to type "Test = 25mph".

-DK
  #7  
Old January 27th 06, 07:49 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Darn! My '94 Del Sol failed the California Smog Check today

"DavidK" > wrote in
om:

> Hello and thanks for all the responses. Here are all of the
> Emmission Test Result numbers from my failing test report:
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
> Line 1:
>
> Test=15mph
> RPM=1727
> %CO2 meas=15.6



Good number there. Means the catalytic converter is successfully converting
the CO into CO2.


> %02 meas=0.0



Good. Means the cat is soaking up oxygen properly, so it's in good shape.
It also suggests you don't have an exhaust leak.


> HC (PPM) MAX=92, AVE=21, MEAS=13



Low number there. You're probably running lean.


> CO (%) MAX=0.55, AVE=0.06, MEAS=0.03



You're running a bit lean.


> NO (PPM) MAX=716, AVE=150, MEAS=991



California checks your ignition timing as part of the test, doesn't it?
Then we can rule that out.

Possible causes:
EGR passage to the EGR valve carboned up
Fuel pressure regulator weak
Rich-biased oxygen sensor

I'd run a bottle or two of Techron through it for the next week or so (just
to make sure the injectors and valve tops are reasonably clean) and then
take it back for a retest. If it still fails on the same thing, clean the
EGR passages.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
  #8  
Old January 28th 06, 06:28 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Darn! My '94 Del Sol failed the California Smog Check today

DavidK wrote:
>
> After having passed the California smog check for 2 tests (4 years) in a
> row, my stock '94 Del Sol ("S" model with 1.5L engine) failed today. :-(
> It's the first time I've ever had any car fail the Smog Check, in 20 years
> of living in California.
>

<SNIP>

Just for kicks, change the PCV (since they never get changed) along with
using the injector cleaner. Anybody else think that will help? If the
PCV is wacky, doesn't the computer 'misread' some of it's variables?

'Curly'

  #9  
Old January 28th 06, 06:48 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Darn! My '94 Del Sol failed the California Smog Check today

"'Curly Q. Links'" > wrote
> DavidK wrote:
> >
> > After having passed the California smog check for 2

tests (4 years) in a
> > row, my stock '94 Del Sol ("S" model with 1.5L engine)

failed today. :-(
> > It's the first time I've ever had any car fail the Smog

Check, in 20 years
> > of living in California.
> >

> <SNIP>
>
> Just for kicks, change the PCV (since they never get

changed) along with
> using the injector cleaner. Anybody else think that will

help?

> If the
> PCV is wacky, doesn't the computer 'misread' some of it's

variables?

From my reading and experience, yes, typically causing an
overly rich fuel mixture and so causing fuel mileage to
decline. But as I think we've discussed in the past, it's
the CO reading that should be out of spec for a bad PCV
valve.

A malfunctioning EGR system, among other things, is said to
be a possible cause of the high NOX. See
http://www.aircare.ca/index.php?repinfo-glossary.php ,
especially the "Causes of Excess Emissions" part. See also
http://www.interro.com/techgas.html#anchoreleven

But I agree that, if this is the original PCV valve, it's
due for replacement, if only for the sake of maximizing fuel
mileage and minimizing the chance of oil leaks.


  #10  
Old January 28th 06, 10:21 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Darn! My '94 Del Sol failed the California Smog Check today

TeGGeR® wrote:
> California checks your ignition timing as part of the test, doesn't it?


theyre *supposed* to. whether the mechanic can read the marks correctly
is another story. and if it was done at a "test only" station, they
arent allowed to fix it, and arent even supposed to suggest a cause.

> Then we can rule that out.
>
> Possible causes:
> EGR passage to the EGR valve carboned up


on my MG, the actual EGR valve was faulty. i applied vacuum to it with a
mityvac hand pump, or TRIED to. wouldnt work. took it off and inspected,
the diaphragm was split.

> Fuel pressure regulator weak
> Rich-biased oxygen sensor
>
> I'd run a bottle or two of Techron through it for the next week or so (just
> to make sure the injectors and valve tops are reasonably clean) and then
> take it back for a retest. If it still fails on the same thing, clean the
> EGR passages.


id vote for the timing being off.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Smog guy was a hardass today Mark C. Ford Mustang 0 April 19th 05 02:46 AM
95 Camaro Failed Smog - cap & rotor location? Gary Skidmore Corvette 2 October 30th 04 02:50 PM
SMOG CHECK San Francisco, CA Avoid OCEAN 76 in SF, CA for your Smog Check! Cheaters! Me 4x4 0 May 18th 04 05:12 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AutoBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.