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Timing belt noise....ticking 93 Accord
Just replaced the timing belt on my 93 accord. Used OEM belts, seals,
and a GMB water pump. Car has 215k and is the second timing belt. All seems well except for a rapid ticking sound which seems to be coming from within the timing belt upper cover. Ticking noise goes away when the car is warm, and returns when the car is started cold. Wonder if it might be the belt too loose? Tighened everything like the service manual suggested, (three teeth counter clockwise, tighten tension bolt) Seems to run just fine, but am wondering what the ticking noise is. Kind of sounds like maybe slack in the belt is hitting the upper cover, but if it were that loose, I thought it would jump a tooth. I do not believe it is valve noise. Any suggestions? Thanks. |
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#2
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Timing belt noise....ticking 93 Accord
honda man wrote:
> Just replaced the timing belt on my 93 accord. Used OEM belts, seals, > and a GMB water pump. Car has 215k and is the second timing belt. All > seems well except for a rapid ticking sound which seems to be coming > from within the timing belt upper cover. Ticking noise goes away when > the car is warm, and returns when the car is started cold. Wonder if > it might be the belt too loose? Tighened everything like the service > manual suggested, (three teeth counter clockwise, tighten tension bolt) > Seems to run just fine, but am wondering what the ticking noise is. > Kind of sounds like maybe slack in the belt is hitting the upper cover, > but if it were that loose, I thought it would jump a tooth. I do not > believe it is valve noise. Any suggestions? > Thanks. > safe thing is to recheck tension. it's a pita, but it has to be done. belts don't always jump when loose because when rotating, they're held tight on the one pulley run that matters - cam to crank. my own civic belt had been so loose [unknown to me] that when i finally got around to replacing it, i took the top cover off, turned the pulley wheel backwards to get the pulley holder aligned right, and watched the belt skip right before my eyes! it had done over 10k of redlines under my heavy boot since purchase in that condition - i was incredibly lucky. other sources of tick include slight belt misalignment, wrong placement of the dished sliders on the crank pulley, loose auxiliary belts, a/c tensioner bearings... need to get in there with the stethoscope [stick of wood against the ear]. |
#3
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Timing belt noise....ticking 93 Accord
You have alreadry received good advice, but here is something else you
might want to consider. Lossen/ remove all accessory drive belts and run the engine to make sure they are not the noise makers. Good luck. |
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Timing belt noise....ticking 93 Accord
Thanks for the response. I plan to get in there in five days or so.
Hope there will be no problems until then. Seems to "tick" less with warmer weather. I wonder if my 12 year old tensioner springs have lost some of their pull, causing the belt not to tighen as much as it needs to? Any comments on old springs not pulling the belt tigher? When I put it together, the belt was tight on the cam to crank side, and loose (what seemed to be too loose) on the water pump side. Thanks. |
#5
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Timing belt noise....ticking 93 Accord
"honda man" > wrote
> Thanks for the response. I plan to get in there in five days or so. > Hope there will be no problems until then. Seems to "tick" less with > warmer weather. I wonder if my 12 year old tensioner springs have lost > some of their pull, causing the belt not to tighen as much as it needs > to? Any comments on old springs not pulling the belt tigher? I was advised to change my 91 Civic's tensioner about every other timing belt change. My Civic has 174k miles on it and the original tensioner. No problems so far. I change the belt next year and already purchased a new tensioner, based on what people here told me, for a related job, anticipating I might want to replace the tensioner sooner rather than later. You should google the two Honda newsgroup archives for {tensioner bearings} for more discussion, as well as keep checking back here. See for example: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...da0fbd99460b19 Seems there's some discussion elsewhere of varying noise from the bearing from cold to hot, and checking this with the method Jim described. |
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Timing belt noise....ticking 93 Accord
honda man wrote:
> Thanks for the response. I plan to get in there in five days or so. > Hope there will be no problems until then. Seems to "tick" less with > warmer weather. I wonder if my 12 year old tensioner springs have lost > some of their pull, causing the belt not to tighen as much as it needs > to? Any comments on old springs not pulling the belt tigher? yes. age should not affect this spring, but general gunk and debris buildup around the tensioner mounting definitely do. i had to tension mine a couple of times before i figured out that i had to loosen the tensioner pinch bolt much more than i thought was necessary for it to have sufficient float for the spring to pull the pulley tight. > When I > put it together, the belt was tight on the cam to crank side, and loose > (what seemed to be too loose) on the water pump side. see above! but you definitely got the most important factor identified ok, that of making sure the drive side of the belt is tight before attempting to tension. bonus points for that if it's your first time. > > Thanks. > |
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Timing belt noise....ticking 93 Accord
"Elle" > wrote in
ink.net: > "honda man" > wrote >> Thanks for the response. I plan to get in there in five days or so. >> Hope there will be no problems until then. Seems to "tick" less with >> warmer weather. I wonder if my 12 year old tensioner springs have >> lost some of their pull, causing the belt not to tighen as much as it >> needs to? Any comments on old springs not pulling the belt tigher? > > I was advised to change my 91 Civic's tensioner about every other > timing belt change. > > If I have the time belt off, I replace the water pump, tensioner and spring every time. Now that's within reason, I don't do it if it's been 10K miles but, like doing a clutch and replacing the throw-out and pilot bearing every time, it's just good insurance. The cost of these parts is low compared to what my time's worth. If the water pump/tensioner quits, you might be out a motor. |
#8
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Timing belt noise....ticking 93 Accord
Had the exact same thing - check your belt tension. Mine was fine after replacing the belt. -- n8zdogg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ n8zdogg's Profile: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...?userid=406520 View this thread: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=528410 http://www.automotiveforums.com |
#9
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Timing belt noise....ticking 93 Accord
n8zdogg wrote:
> Had the exact same thing - check your belt tension. Mine was fine after > replacing the belt. > > > -- > n8zdogg > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > n8zdogg's Profile: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...?userid=406520 > View this thread: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=528410 > > http://www.automotiveforums.com Well, I got around to looking at the cause of the ticking noise, and found out what was happening. The timing belt teeth were hitting the plastic "Timing Belt Back Cover" (behind the cam gear) and the "Timing Belt Front Upper Cover" rear bolt sleeves causing the ticking or rattle noise! Seems the timing belt between the water pump and the cam is too loose causing it to make contact with the bolt sleeve. The timing belt between the cam and the crank is tight, but seems too loose between the water pump gear and the cam...and I guess it is given the fact that it is making contact with the plastic bolt sleeve! Soooo, I thought simple fix, just readjust the timing belt, which I did do, tried multiple times, (set engine to TDC, loosen adjusting bolt, rotate engine counter clockwise three cam teeth, and tighten adjusting bolt) belt still seems to loose. Next I tried "helping" the tensioner tighten the belt by pulling up on the timing belt tensioner with a "customized wire hook" but when I pulled up on the rear timing belt tensioner, it seemed as though it was as high as it would go, and would not pull any higher. I even tried to push or rotate the water pump gear clockwise to aid the tensioner in pulling the belt tight! Again, it seemed like the tensioner was as high as it would go, and still could not seem to get the belt between the water pump and the cam any tighter. I performed all of this with only the upper timing belt cover, and valve cover removed. With a flash light, I looked down near the spring on the rear tensioner, and it looks like the tensioner is pulled all the way up, as if it is not able to get any higher, or pull the belt tighter. The "wing" part of the tensioner bracket that allows you to lock it in place by inserting a lower cover bolt, is pulled up beyond the bolt hole on the block, as if it is as high as it can go. Hopefully you know what I mean, from my description. At this point, not being able to get the belt any tighter, I decided to trim back the upper cover sleeve with a razor blade about 1/8 - 3/16 of an inch, so the belt will not make contact with it. Was still able to insert the bolt without any trouble. Started the engine, and the ticking is gone, however, I think the belt is still too loose. How can I get this belt tighter? Seems like it is not loose enough to jump a tooth on the cam, but think it needs to be tighter. It's a new honda timing belt, can't be too long... Any help here? Thanks all! |
#10
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Timing belt noise....ticking 93 Accord
honda man wrote:
> n8zdogg wrote: > >>Had the exact same thing - check your belt tension. Mine was fine after >>replacing the belt. >> >> >>-- >>n8zdogg >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>n8zdogg's Profile: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...?userid=406520 >>View this thread: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=528410 >> >>http://www.automotiveforums.com > > > Well, I got around to looking at the cause of the ticking noise, and > found out what was happening. The timing belt teeth were hitting the > plastic "Timing Belt Back Cover" (behind the cam gear) and the "Timing > Belt Front Upper Cover" rear bolt sleeves causing the ticking or rattle > noise! Seems the timing belt between the water pump and the cam is too > loose causing it to make contact with the bolt sleeve. The timing belt > between the cam and the crank is tight, but seems too loose between the > water pump gear and the cam...and I guess it is given the fact that it > is making contact with the plastic bolt sleeve! > > Soooo, I thought simple fix, just readjust the timing belt, which I did > do, tried multiple times, (set engine to TDC, loosen adjusting bolt, > rotate engine counter clockwise three cam teeth, and tighten adjusting > bolt) belt still seems to loose. Next I tried "helping" the tensioner > tighten the belt by pulling up on the timing belt tensioner with a > "customized wire hook" but when I pulled up on the rear timing belt > tensioner, it seemed as though it was as high as it would go, and would > not pull any higher. I even tried to push or rotate the water pump > gear clockwise to aid the tensioner in pulling the belt tight! Again, > it seemed like the tensioner was as high as it would go, and still > could not seem to get the belt between the water pump and the cam any > tighter. I performed all of this with only the upper timing belt > cover, and valve cover removed. With a flash light, I looked down near > the spring on the rear tensioner, and it looks like the tensioner is > pulled all the way up, as if it is not able to get any higher, or pull > the belt tighter. The "wing" part of the tensioner bracket that allows > you to lock it in place by inserting a lower cover bolt, is pulled up > beyond the bolt hole on the block, as if it is as high as it can go. > Hopefully you know what I mean, from my description. > > At this point, not being able to get the belt any tighter, I decided to > trim back the upper cover sleeve with a razor blade about 1/8 - 3/16 of > an inch, so the belt will not make contact with it. Was still able to > insert the bolt without any trouble. Started the engine, and the > ticking is gone, however, I think the belt is still too loose. How can > I get this belt tighter? Seems like it is not loose enough to jump a > tooth on the cam, but think it needs to be tighter. > > It's a new honda timing belt, can't be too long... > > Any help here? > > Thanks all! > what a /huge/ pita! sounds like you have been given the wrong belt. the correct belt /definitely/ tightens ok, and the idler pulley is /not/ at the end of its slot when tight. even if the part number on the box is ok, it doesn't mean the belt inside was correct - factory mixup and all that... can you check the number on the belt while it's on the car? also, double-check the model number on the engine in case it was swapped out before you got it. one more thing, when you have everything back to normal, don't "help" the belt tighten. the correct procedure of tensioning the run between the cam & the crank, then allowing the tensioning spring to do its work gives exactly the correct belt tension - and there will be no slop. any more than that and the belt can fail prematurely, water pump bearings fail, etc. etc. |
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