Performance driving vs. reckless driving

Performance driving:
* Taking turns with control, possibly at a higher speed than the turn is
signed.
* Controlled lane changes, possible at a closer distance but not cutting off
the other driver.

Reckless driving:
* Power slide on turns, thus losing control
* S-curve lane changes--changing lanes and then changing back to the
previous lane.

Add more to this.

On 2/17/2013 6:34 PM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> Performance driving:
> * Taking turns with control, possibly at a higher speed than the turn is
> signed.

Some suggested speeds are ridiculous. I went around a curve marked
35-mph today in my 4WD Nissan Frontier at 45-mph with no drama. I think
I could get around the same curve at 100+ mph on the CBR600F4i (as long
as the tires were warmed up).

--
Tom $herman

"Tom $herman" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/17/2013 6:34 PM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>> Performance driving:
>> * Taking turns with control, possibly at a higher speed than the turn is
>> signed.
>
> Some suggested speeds are ridiculous. I went around a curve marked 35-mph
> today in my 4WD Nissan Frontier at 45-mph with no drama. I think I could
> get around the same curve at 100+ mph on the CBR600F4i (as long as the
> tires were warmed up).
>
Yep, you can do that turn at 45 mph, and it isn't necessarily reckless
driving. At 100+ mph you'd likely power slide the turn--definitely reckless
driving.

What I find about the speed limit signed on the curve is that any lateral
G's are non-existent on the turn and minimized on cloverleaf type of
on-ramps.

(Ever been on an Eli Scrambler ride or an ARM Twist ride, a Wild Mouse type
roller coaster, or a Chance Rides Falling Star ride? That's what I mean by
high lateral G's. Those are the G's in a vehicle that can cause a loss of
control.)

On 2/17/2013 7:55 PM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> "Tom $herman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2/17/2013 6:34 PM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>>> Performance driving:
>>> * Taking turns with control, possibly at a higher speed than the turn is
>>> signed.
>>
>> Some suggested speeds are ridiculous. I went around a curve marked
>> 35-mph today in my 4WD Nissan Frontier at 45-mph with no drama. I
>> think I could get around the same curve at 100+ mph on the CBR600F4i
>> (as long as the tires were warmed up).
>>
> Yep, you can do that turn at 45 mph, and it isn't necessarily reckless
> driving. At 100+ mph you'd likely power slide the turn--definitely
> reckless driving.
>
Uh, no. Riding, not driving. So no wiping out in a skid on dry
pavement with warmed up tires, as the CBR (like all street bikes short
of something such as a Ducati Desmosedici RR) is designed to low-side
fall from grounding out before losing traction, since the latter can
result in a nasty high-side launch of the rider and bike.

> What I find about the speed limit signed on the curve is that any
> lateral G's are non-existent on the turn and minimized on cloverleaf
> type of on-ramps.
>
The posted speeds appear to be for top-heavy box trucks and motor-homes.

> (Ever been on an Eli Scrambler ride or an ARM Twist ride, a Wild Mouse
> type roller coaster, or a Chance Rides Falling Star ride? That's what I
> mean by high lateral G's. Those are the G's in a vehicle that can cause
> a loss of control.)
>
No. Locations?

--
Tom $herman

"Tom $herman" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/17/2013 7:55 PM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>> "Tom $herman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 2/17/2013 6:34 PM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>>>> Performance driving:
>>>> * Taking turns with control, possibly at a higher speed than the turn
>>>> is
>>>> signed.
>>>
>>> Some suggested speeds are ridiculous. I went around a curve marked
>>> 35-mph today in my 4WD Nissan Frontier at 45-mph with no drama. I
>>> think I could get around the same curve at 100+ mph on the CBR600F4i
>>> (as long as the tires were warmed up).
>>>
>> Yep, you can do that turn at 45 mph, and it isn't necessarily reckless
>> driving. At 100+ mph you'd likely power slide the turn--definitely
>> reckless driving.
>>
> Uh, no. Riding, not driving. So no wiping out in a skid on dry pavement
> with warmed up tires, as the CBR (like all street bikes short of something
> such as a Ducati Desmosedici RR) is designed to low-side fall from
> grounding out before losing traction, since the latter can result in a
> nasty high-side launch of the rider and bike.
>
Ah, so motorcycle riding, I get it now.

>> What I find about the speed limit signed on the curve is that any
>> lateral G's are non-existent on the turn and minimized on cloverleaf
>> type of on-ramps.
>>
> The posted speeds appear to be for top-heavy box trucks and motor-homes.
>
>> (Ever been on an Eli Scrambler ride or an ARM Twist ride, a Wild Mouse
>> type roller coaster, or a Chance Rides Falling Star ride? That's what I
>> mean by high lateral G's. Those are the G's in a vehicle that can cause
>> a loss of control.)
>>
> No. Locations?
>
Any major county fair should have at least a Scrambler type ride. Or,
something like a Re-mix ride which has mostly positive G's but also has
laterals for the final finish part of the ride. Falling Star rides are
becoming harder to find.

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 16:34:33 -0800, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
> wrote:

>Performance driving:
>* Taking turns with control, possibly at a higher speed than the turn is
>signed.
>* Controlled lane changes, possible at a closer distance but not cutting off
>the other driver.
>
>Reckless driving:
>* Power slide on turns, thus losing control
>* S-curve lane changes--changing lanes and then changing back to the
>previous lane.
>
>Add more to this.

If you are doing things that surprise other drivers or cause them to
brake when they really would not have expected to (such as cutting
them off as you mentioned) then you are entering the realm of reckless
driving.

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 19:51:48 -0600, "Tom $herman"
> wrote:

>On 2/17/2013 6:34 PM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>> Performance driving:
>> * Taking turns with control, possibly at a higher speed than the turn is
>> signed.
>
>Some suggested speeds are ridiculous. I went around a curve marked
>35-mph today in my 4WD Nissan Frontier at 45-mph with no drama. I think
>I could get around the same curve at 100+ mph on the CBR600F4i (as long
>as the tires were warmed up).

Curves seem to be signed for a speed that will produce no more then
0.20 g's. That should make them safe for almost the worst possible
pavement friction when wet but probably will still be too fast for
snow and ice.

On Feb 17, 11:14*pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 16:34:33 -0800, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
>
> > wrote:
> >Performance driving:
> >* Taking turns with control, possibly at a higher speed than the turn is
> >signed.
> >* Controlled lane changes, possible at a closer distance but not cutting off
> >the other driver.
>
> >Reckless driving:
> >* Power slide on turns, thus losing control
> >* S-curve lane changes--changing lanes and then changing back to the
> >previous lane.
>
> >Add more to this.
>
> If you are doing things that surprise other drivers or cause them to
> brake when they really would not have expected to ( then you are entering the realm of reckless
> driving.

"such as cutting them off as you mentioned"

Odd, I see no mention of him 'cutting someone off'

Harry K

On Feb 17, 8:51*pm, "Tom $herman" >
wrote:
>
> Some suggested speeds are ridiculous. *I went around a curve marked
> 35-mph today in my 4WD Nissan Frontier at 45-mph with no drama.

They're "advisory" speeds, and I can't tell if you mean to suggest
they should advise a speed just below the limits of traction of
whatever vehicle you happen to be steering at the time... somehow.

There are 2 general factors used to set advisory speeds, sight
distance and Gs.
-----

- gpsman

On Feb 18, 9:31*am, gpsman > wrote:
> On Feb 17, 8:51*pm, "Tom $herman" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Some suggested speeds are ridiculous. *I went around a curve marked
> > 35-mph today in my 4WD Nissan Frontier at 45-mph with no drama.
>
> They're "advisory" speeds, and I can't tell if you mean to suggest
> they should advise a speed just below the limits of traction of
> whatever vehicle you happen to be steering at the time... somehow.
>
> There are 2 general factors used to set advisory speeds, sight
> distance and Gs.
> *-----
>
> - gpsman

Yep and I haven't run into one that couldn't comfortably be taken
about 10mph or more above that advisory on dry pavement.
I've driven in all states save one in cars as old as a 41 chev cross
country.

Harry K