'95 Caravan Fuel Pump or Relay Issue ?

Hi All,

'95 Caravan, 3.0L, 162K Miles, new fuel pump installed at 157K miles.
My van now starts then stalls out, intermittantly. When I turn the
key, I hear the pump whine, and then a "click", under the hood, which
I assume is the fuel pump relay. The van starts and runs/drives
normally.

Sometimes, I'll hear the pump whine, then no "click" then the van will
start then die.

If I shut the van off after running it normally, and try to restart it
right away, I don't hear the whine, or any click, and it'll crank/no
start. If I leave it sit for a few minutes, it'll either start right
up, or it won't start - it's a crap shoot.

SOOOOOOO, because the fuel pump is rather new, I'm leaning toward the
fuel pump relay (?). I've had bad pumps right outta the box, but
never had 'em die after 5-6K miles. They're either good or bad...

The pump's under warranty, but I REALLY don't want to drop that tank
in this weather!

Can someone point me to the pump relay, and/or give any opinions/
advice on this?

Thanks
Rick

On Feb 24, 9:20 am, wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> '95 Caravan, 3.0L, 162K Miles, new fuel pump installed at 157K miles.
> My van now starts then stalls out, intermittantly. When I turn the
> key, I hear the pump whine, and then a "click", under the hood, which
> I assume is the fuel pump relay. The van starts and runs/drives
> normally.
>
> Sometimes, I'll hear the pump whine, then no "click" then the van will
> start then die.
>
> If I shut the van off after running it normally, and try to restart it
> right away, I don't hear the whine, or any click, and it'll crank/no
> start. If I leave it sit for a few minutes, it'll either start right
> up, or it won't start - it's a crap shoot.
>
> SOOOOOOO, because the fuel pump is rather new, I'm leaning toward the
> fuel pump relay (?). I've had bad pumps right outta the box, but
> never had 'em die after 5-6K miles. They're either good or bad...
>
> The pump's under warranty, but I REALLY don't want to drop that tank
> in this weather!
>
> Can someone point me to the pump relay, and/or give any opinions/
> advice on this?
>
> Thanks
> Rick

UPDATE: Found the fuel pump relay. As it had the same numbers as the
rest of them, I swapped it for the one next to it. No change. The
van started right up this morning, and ran for about 30 minutes.
Then, it just died, instantly, as if someone pulled the coil
wire....

Could this possibly be the crank sensor in the distributor doing this?

Thanks
Rick

"Chevydriver37" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Feb 24, 9:20 am, wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > '95 Caravan, 3.0L, 162K Miles, new fuel pump installed at 157K miles.
> > My van now starts then stalls out, intermittantly. When I turn the
> > key, I hear the pump whine, and then a "click", under the hood, which
> > I assume is the fuel pump relay. The van starts and runs/drives
> > normally.
> >
> > Sometimes, I'll hear the pump whine, then no "click" then the van will
> > start then die.
> >
> > If I shut the van off after running it normally, and try to restart it
> > right away, I don't hear the whine, or any click, and it'll crank/no
> > start. If I leave it sit for a few minutes, it'll either start right
> > up, or it won't start - it's a crap shoot.
> >
> > SOOOOOOO, because the fuel pump is rather new, I'm leaning toward the
> > fuel pump relay (?). I've had bad pumps right outta the box, but
> > never had 'em die after 5-6K miles. They're either good or bad...
> >
> > The pump's under warranty, but I REALLY don't want to drop that tank
> > in this weather!
> >
> > Can someone point me to the pump relay, and/or give any opinions/
> > advice on this?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Rick
>
> UPDATE: Found the fuel pump relay. As it had the same numbers as the
> rest of them, I swapped it for the one next to it. No change. The
> van started right up this morning, and ran for about 30 minutes.
> Then, it just died, instantly, as if someone pulled the coil
> wire....
>
> Could this possibly be the crank sensor in the distributor doing this?
>
> Thanks
> Rick
>

By saying it shuts off like someone pulled the coil wire should tell you
that it is not fuel related!! A fuel pump/pressure problem will not just
shut down like pulling a wire, it will slowly start to run rough, maybe some
spittering and sputtering and then cut off. Have you checked for fault
codes? A crank sensor would be more likely then a fuel pump issue

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

i agree crank sensor or maf sensor..good luck.


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"Chevydriver37" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Feb 24, 9:20 am, wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > '95 Caravan, 3.0L, 162K Miles, new fuel pump installed at 157K miles.
> > My van now starts then stalls out, intermittantly. When I turn the
> > key, I hear the pump whine, and then a "click", under the hood, which
> > I assume is the fuel pump relay. The van starts and runs/drives
> > normally.
> >
> > Sometimes, I'll hear the pump whine, then no "click" then the van will
> > start then die.
> >
> > If I shut the van off after running it normally, and try to restart it
> > right away, I don't hear the whine, or any click, and it'll crank/no
> > start. If I leave it sit for a few minutes, it'll either start right
> > up, or it won't start - it's a crap shoot.
> >
> > SOOOOOOO, because the fuel pump is rather new, I'm leaning toward the
> > fuel pump relay (?). I've had bad pumps right outta the box, but
> > never had 'em die after 5-6K miles. They're either good or bad...
> >
> > The pump's under warranty, but I REALLY don't want to drop that tank
> > in this weather!
> >
> > Can someone point me to the pump relay, and/or give any opinions/
> > advice on this?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Rick
>
> UPDATE: Found the fuel pump relay. As it had the same numbers as the
> rest of them, I swapped it for the one next to it. No change. The
> van started right up this morning, and ran for about 30 minutes.
> Then, it just died, instantly, as if someone pulled the coil
> wire....
>
> Could this possibly be the crank sensor in the distributor doing this?
>
> Thanks
> Rick
>
By saying it shuts off like someone pulled the coil wire should tell you
that it is not fuel related!! A fuel pump/pressure problem will not just
shut down like pulling a wire, it will slowly start to run rough, maybe some
spittering and sputtering and then cut off. Have you checked for fault
codes? A crank sensor would be more likely then a fuel pump issue

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

maxpower wrote:

> By saying it shuts off like someone pulled the coil wire should tell you
> that it is not fuel related!! A fuel pump/pressure problem will not just
> shut down like pulling a wire, it will slowly start to run rough, maybe some
> spittering and sputtering and then cut off. Have you checked for fault
> codes? A crank sensor would be more likely then a fuel pump issue
>
> Glenn Beasley
> Chrysler Tech
>

I had a Dodge minivan with a pump that would shut off from time to time.
While driving, sometimes when I took my foot off the accelerator the
pump would shut off and not turn back on. It was just like somebody
pulled the distributor wire. If I wanted it to keep going I would have
to power brake on the freeway to keep a steady demand for fuel. That
was a really irritating afternoon until I got it home.

Regardless, I agree with you guys. It's most likely a sensor telling
the ignition to shut off. It would be simple enough to prove it by
poking the fuel pressure test port to see if gasoline comes out after
the engine dies.

On Feb 24, 1:50 pm, Robert Reynolds > wrote:
> maxpower wrote:
> > By saying it shuts off like someone pulled the coil wire should tell you
> > that it is not fuel related!! A fuel pump/pressure problem will not just
> > shut down like pulling a wire, it will slowly start to run rough, maybe some
> > spittering and sputtering and then cut off. Have you checked for fault
> > codes? A crank sensor would be more likely then a fuel pump issue
>
> > Glenn Beasley
> > Chrysler Tech
>
> I had a Dodge minivan with a pump that would shut off from time to time.
> While driving, sometimes when I took my foot off the accelerator the
> pump would shut off and not turn back on. It was just like somebody
> pulled the distributor wire. If I wanted it to keep going I would have
> to power brake on the freeway to keep a steady demand for fuel. That
> was a really irritating afternoon until I got it home.
>
> Regardless, I agree with you guys. It's most likely a sensor telling
> the ignition to shut off. It would be simple enough to prove it by
> poking the fuel pressure test port to see if gasoline comes out after
> the engine dies.


THANK YOU for the replies... For some reason, I just have this mental
block every time it comes to this vehicle. The computer didn't throw
a code, so I kept focused on the fuel pump and relay. Not sure if
there's a test for the crank sensor or not, but I can replace the
distributor and see what happens next....
Thanks again
Rick

"Chevydriver37" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Feb 24, 9:20 am, wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > '95 Caravan, 3.0L, 162K Miles, new fuel pump installed at 157K miles.
> > My van now starts then stalls out, intermittantly. When I turn the
> > key, I hear the pump whine, and then a "click", under the hood, which
> > I assume is the fuel pump relay. The van starts and runs/drives
> > normally.
> >
> > Sometimes, I'll hear the pump whine, then no "click" then the van will
> > start then die.
> >
> > If I shut the van off after running it normally, and try to restart it
> > right away, I don't hear the whine, or any click, and it'll crank/no
> > start. If I leave it sit for a few minutes, it'll either start right
> > up, or it won't start - it's a crap shoot.
> >
> > SOOOOOOO, because the fuel pump is rather new, I'm leaning toward the
> > fuel pump relay (?). I've had bad pumps right outta the box, but
> > never had 'em die after 5-6K miles. They're either good or bad...
> >
> > The pump's under warranty, but I REALLY don't want to drop that tank
> > in this weather!
> >
> > Can someone point me to the pump relay, and/or give any opinions/
> > advice on this?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Rick
>
> UPDATE: Found the fuel pump relay. As it had the same numbers as the
> rest of them, I swapped it for the one next to it. No change. The
> van started right up this morning, and ran for about 30 minutes.
> Then, it just died, instantly, as if someone pulled the coil
> wire....
>
> Could this possibly be the crank sensor in the distributor doing this?
>

The sensor in the distributor is the cam sensor, the crank sensor is in
the transmission bellhousing. If you have no check engine light, if it is
a sensor, it is probably the crank sensor.

These sensors get old and then heat cracks the wires inside the sensor
and the sensor then works when cold and when they get hot and expand
the wires break connection and they stop working.

Ted

On Feb 25, 1:05 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote:
> "Chevydriver37" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Feb 24, 9:20 am, wrote:
> > > Hi All,
>
> > > '95 Caravan, 3.0L, 162K Miles, new fuel pump installed at 157K miles.
> > > My van now starts then stalls out, intermittantly. When I turn the
> > > key, I hear the pump whine, and then a "click", under the hood, which
> > > I assume is the fuel pump relay. The van starts and runs/drives
> > > normally.
>
> > > Sometimes, I'll hear the pump whine, then no "click" then the van will
> > > start then die.
>
> > > If I shut the van off after running it normally, and try to restart it
> > > right away, I don't hear the whine, or any click, and it'll crank/no
> > > start. If I leave it sit for a few minutes, it'll either start right
> > > up, or it won't start - it's a crap shoot.
>
> > > SOOOOOOO, because the fuel pump is rather new, I'm leaning toward the
> > > fuel pump relay (?). I've had bad pumps right outta the box, but
> > > never had 'em die after 5-6K miles. They're either good or bad...
>
> > > The pump's under warranty, but I REALLY don't want to drop that tank
> > > in this weather!
>
> > > Can someone point me to the pump relay, and/or give any opinions/
> > > advice on this?
>
> > > Thanks
> > > Rick
>
> > UPDATE: Found the fuel pump relay. As it had the same numbers as the
> > rest of them, I swapped it for the one next to it. No change. The
> > van started right up this morning, and ran for about 30 minutes.
> > Then, it just died, instantly, as if someone pulled the coil
> > wire....
>
> > Could this possibly be the crank sensor in the distributor doing this?
>
> The sensor in the distributor is the cam sensor, the crank sensor is in
> the transmission bellhousing. If you have no check engine light, if it is
> a sensor, it is probably the crank sensor.
>
> These sensors get old and then heat cracks the wires inside the sensor
> and the sensor then works when cold and when they get hot and expand
> the wires break connection and they stop working.
>
> Ted

Update.....: Thought I had the problem licked after replacing 5 feet
of rotted and leaking fuel line, but, no deal.... New lines look nice
though...
Went to pick up a crank sensor, but they didn't show one, and their
system pointed to a cam sensor. They were nice enough to give me the
sensor "on loan", but that didn't do the trick either.

Now I'm noticing that right after it dies, I shut the key off, wait
about a minute, turn the key back on, and I DONT hear the fuel pump.
Wait another minute or two, then I hear the pump...

There are two things I can't seem to find: 1, The fuel pressure
relief schrader-type valve, and 2, the darn crank sensor. My Haynes
doesn't reference a crank sensor for this year ('95 3.0L, D.O.M.
3/95) ), nor do I see anything in there for a pressure relief
valve...

Any suggestions? I'd really like to get the most obvious stuff out of
the way, before going to the dealer.
Thanks again
Rick

Chevydriver37 wrote:

> Now I'm noticing that right after it dies, I shut the key off, wait
> about a minute, turn the key back on, and I DONT hear the fuel pump.
> Wait another minute or two, then I hear the pump...


A test you can do: After it dies and you turn the key off and back on
and don't hear the pump, crank it and see if you get sparks. The same
relay (ASD relay) controls both the ignition system and the fuel pump.
If you get spark but no pump, the problem is downstream of the relay.
If you get no spark and no pump, the whole system controlled by that
relay is failing to power up. If this is the case, check the line
coming to the ASD.

I had a problem on a few of my older vans ('88, '89 and '90) where the
line directly from the battery + to the ASD relay did not have 12 volts
(it is supposed to at all times, key on or off). On two of these
vehicles it was a permanent failure, and a jumper wire permanently
installed from the ASD to the battery fixed it. On the '89 it was an
intermittent problem. I'm not saying that it is likely in your case,
but it's worth checking.