How do I decide if these five tires are holed too close to the sidewall?

How do I decide if these five tires are holed too close to the sidewall?
http://i.cubeupload.com/qD9rZv.jpg

Yesterday, for practice in dismounting, patching, and remounting, I patched
these 5 tires above, which a friend and I had lying around.
http://i.cubeupload.com/gCNODb.jpg

For the purpose of this thread, we can ignore the tread wear since the
question is being asked about how to decide when a nail hole is too close
to the sidewall.
http://i.cubeupload.com/0X8NfQ.jpg

I guess the first question is *WHY* we can't patch next to the sidewall.
Is it that the patch won't hold? Why?
Is it that the patch will flex too much?
Or is it that the belts are damaged and they will break?

On 12/21/2016 10:10 AM, Frank Baron wrote:
> How do I decide if these five tires are holed too close to the sidewall?
> http://i.cubeupload.com/qD9rZv.jpg
....

None of those are even close to the sidewall; they're all well out in
tread area.

> I guess the first question is *WHY* we can't patch next to the sidewall.
> Is it that the patch won't hold? Why?
> Is it that the patch will flex too much?
> Or is it that the belts are damaged and they will break?

All of the above in greater/lesser degree depending on just where and
how bad the damage is...

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 10:14:36 -0600, dpb advised:
>> I guess the first question is *WHY* we can't patch next to the sidewall.
>> Is it that the patch won't hold? Why?
>> Is it that the patch will flex too much?
>> Or is it that the belts are damaged and they will break?
>
> All of the above in greater/lesser degree depending on just where and
> how bad the damage is...

Thank you for the information as some were on the last tread groove (see
below how we patched it with a home-made plug patch.

> None of those are even close to the sidewall; they're all well out in
> tread area.

Thank you for that advice because I wasn't sure at all how close you can
get to the sidewall for it to fail the patch test.

We patched this alloy-wheel 55-series tire where a flat-on-both-sides tiny
bolt (with no sharp edges whatsoever) had wedged itself into the last
groove, and eventually punctured the tire.
http://i.cubeupload.com/09PwHs.jpg

Here you see the tiny (now headless) bolt next to the puncture hole:
http://i.cubeupload.com/6F0CnI.jpg

To properly patch that hole, we reamed the hole with this hand tool:
http://i.cubeupload.com/sZ6qxo.jpg

Using that hand tool, we probed the hole slant (it went in straight):
http://i.cubeupload.com/UxYLNx.jpg

Then we grabbed this second hand tool & slobbered glue on the plug:
http://i.cubeupload.com/EMU9zy.jpg

This is the plug sticking up on the outside of the 55-series ti
http://i.cubeupload.com/V1dCGA.jpg

To cut off the protruding plug, we failed trying the diagonal cutter:
http://i.cubeupload.com/ra3Prp.jpg

We also failed with the flush dikes because the plug was too rubbery:
http://i.cubeupload.com/M2BHaA.jpg

We ended up slicing it off with a utility knife but we learned how to slice
the plug off more neatly when we cut off the plug protruding on the inside:
http://i.cubeupload.com/r0n5WI.jpg

The dremel tool metal blade cut off the plug flush with the inside wall:
http://i.cubeupload.com/QSBXAK.jpg

Then we buffed with a wire wheel, where we learned that it would be much
nicer to have a "ball" shaped wire wheel because of the angles involved in
buffing away the outside rubber to expose the virgin rubber to the
vulcanizing glue:
http://i.cubeupload.com/QNrRco.jpg

Here is the buffed result before applying the patch over the plug:
http://i.cubeupload.com/otho8w.jpg

After applying vulcanizing glue, we stitched down the patch:
http://i.cubeupload.com/BrkYl3.jpg

Where this is what the final patch looked like:
http://i.cubeupload.com/UBOmyw.jpg

Any advice you can provide will be helpful as the whole point was to learn
by doing, where already I'd do it differently the next time (e.g., I'd use
the dremel tool on both the inside and outside and I would get a roundish
wire brush that fit the inside of a tire better.

On 12/21/16 11:10 AM, Frank Baron wrote:
> How do I decide if these five tires are holed too close to the sidewall?
> http://i.cubeupload.com/qD9rZv.jpg
>
> Yesterday, for practice in dismounting, patching, and remounting, I patched
> these 5 tires above, which a friend and I had lying around.
> http://i.cubeupload.com/gCNODb.jpg
>
> For the purpose of this thread, we can ignore the tread wear since the
> question is being asked about how to decide when a nail hole is too close
> to the sidewall.
> http://i.cubeupload.com/0X8NfQ.jpg
>
> I guess the first question is *WHY* we can't patch next to the sidewall.
> Is it that the patch won't hold? Why?
> Is it that the patch will flex too much?
> Or is it that the belts are damaged and they will break?
>

Gotta' ask....what is your ongoing fascination with tire
dismounting/mounting/repairing ;-)

--
Make America great again? Hell, I'd be happy if you just made it America
again.
- @KelsowFarlander

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 11:38:23 -0500, Wade Garrett advised:

> Gotta' ask....what is your ongoing fascination with tire
> dismounting/mounting/repairing ;-)

That's a good question which I don't know how to answer.

Thinking about it, I guess it's just that I hate to not be able to do
something that I *should* be able to do at home.

We should all be able to:
a. Mount and dismount a tire at home
b. Patch a tire at home
c. Balance a wheel at home

I patched all five tires, and learned a bunch about what tools would be
better (e.g., a roundish wire brush would be a dream come true to have).

Here I found that breaking the bottom bead on an alloy wheel 55-series tire
was tremendously easier than it was on the 75-series SUV steel-wheel tires
(but you notice how I positioned the purpose-built HF bead-breaking tool
with a board on one end and the HF tire changer on the other end):
http://i.cubeupload.com/ngg3X3.jpg

Then I learned to mark the position of the valve since we'd normally be
re-using these tires and we would want the balance to be the same as it was
before (at least as a starting point):
http://i.cubeupload.com/5Kl0Dy.jpg

Breaking the top bead was so easy that it doesn't need explanation:
http://i.cubeupload.com/PouqLx.jpg

Likewise, levering off the top bead from the alloy wheel was easy peasy:
http://i.cubeupload.com/CIiEKR.jpg

Levering off the bottom bead from the alloy wheel was also very easy:
http://i.cubeupload.com/477H02.jpg

Then, it was time to plug and patch the hole, which, in this case, was made
by a bolt that was NOT sharp!
http://i.cubeupload.com/jxxp46.jpg

The bolt may have wedged into the groove and slowly punctured the ti

Any advice you can provide (that is intended to be helpful) is welcome
because I always want to learn (but advice saying have it done at a shop is
not going to be helpful).

On 12/21/16 2:15 PM, Frank Baron wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 11:38:23 -0500, Wade Garrett advised:
>
>> Gotta' ask....what is your ongoing fascination with tire
>> dismounting/mounting/repairing ;-)
>
> That's a good question which I don't know how to answer.
>
> Thinking about it, I guess it's just that I hate to not be able to do
> something that I *should* be able to do at home.
>
> We should all be able to:
> a. Mount and dismount a tire at home
> b. Patch a tire at home
> c. Balance a wheel at home
>
> I patched all five tires, and learned a bunch about what tools would be
> better (e.g., a roundish wire brush would be a dream come true to have).
>
>SNIP
>
> Any advice you can provide (that is intended to be helpful) is welcome
> because I always want to learn (but advice saying have it done at a shop is
> not going to be helpful).
>
>

Guess everyone needs a hobby ;-)

--
You can’t get rich in politics unless you’re a crook.
- President Harry Truman

On 12/21/2016 12:15 PM, Frank Baron wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 11:38:23 -0500, Wade Garrett advised:
>
>> > Gotta' ask....what is your ongoing fascination with tire
>> > dismounting/mounting/repairing ;-)
> That's a good question which I don't know how to answer.
>
> Thinking about it, I guess it's just that I hate to not be able to do
> something that I *should* be able to do at home.
>
> We should all be able to:
> a. Mount and dismount a tire at home
> b. Patch a tire at home
> c. Balance a wheel at home

Next time the bike needs new shoes I'll give you a shout. Then there's
patching the tire in the woods or in some random parking lot. I don't
balance them. With knobbies, how would you ever know?

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 20:28:28 -0700, rbowman advised:

> Next time the bike needs new shoes I'll give you a shout. Then there's
> patching the tire in the woods or in some random parking lot. I don't
> balance them. With knobbies, how would you ever know?

If this group were named ladies.cookies_and_crochet, then the question
wouldn't be apropos of how to decide when a tire is repairable.

If I were the only driver on the planet, and never drove closer than 500 meters from another living creature, this discussion might be relevant at the level of detail incurred so far.

But, I drive on crowded roads with other drivers who have lives of their own. And the occasional school bus with a few dozen children on board.
And the occasional fluids-tanker or propane tanker with flammable and explosive materials on board.

So, here we are on the Pennsylvania Turnpike (Speed Limit: 70). And my left-front tire shatters on a curve. I start spinning into the other lane and waffle a school bus into a gasoline tanker. *POOF*.

Turns out that the tire-removal, patching, balancing and re-installation were all mine, using Harbor Freight tools based on advice received in this venue.

What is my ethical position? Pretty wretched in any case, and probably criminal.

It is very clear, at least to me, that this idiot in search of a village has the ethics of a politician, the morals of an evangelical preacher and the wisdom of a common housefly. And all this blather is about avoiding 'bad news' and having to take responsibility for his actions. Why would I go to a mechanic to align my vehicle, patch a tire or do any number of other fairly simple tasks? Because that mechanic is trained to see things that I do not. That mechanic (and ours are very, very good) will tell me what I need to know whether I like it or not. And my mechanic DOES use the right tool for the job, does not accept "good enough" and more.

Do not engage with this creature. It will ask and ask and ask the same question in many different ways and in many different venues until it gets the answer it wants. And then it will take action based on that answer and take those results out on the road with other innocents, hang the consequences. I hope, when Horatio/Norman/John/frank is finally awarded his richly deserved, far-to-long delayed Darwin Award, it is a solo action and does not involve group participation.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

> On 12/21/2016 12:15 PM, Frank Baron wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 11:38:23 -0500, Wade Garrett advised:
>>
>>> > Gotta' ask....what is your ongoing fascination with tire
>>> > dismounting/mounting/repairing ;-)
>> That's a good question which I don't know how to answer.
>>
>> Thinking about it, I guess it's just that I hate to not be able to do
>> something that I *should* be able to do at home.
>>
>> We should all be able to:
>> a. Mount and dismount a tire at home
>> b. Patch a tire at home
>> c. Balance a wheel at home

I can't do that and have no desire to do so. In the past 20 years I can
think of three tires needing repair. My car came with roadside service
so I called the number and a guy comes and changes the tire for me. In
two cases, the tire was not repairable in the third, i drove it to a shop.

Economics is also a factor. The cost of the seup is much more than I
spent in tire repairs and that even included what I pay when buying new
tires.

If cars are your hobby, it may be OK. For the average driver, it is
silly.