A Cars forum. AutoBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AutoBanter forum » Auto makers » Alfa Romeo
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Can Olive wait for the beep?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 16th 10, 10:07 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
GT[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Can Olive wait for the beep?

2002 156 2.0JTS + oil levels:

We all know that Alfas use oil. When my oil starts to get low I can hear a
difference in the engine noise and in the past I have always topped up the
oil immediately. Only once in 8 years has the computer's oil low message
beeped at me. I stopped within 200 yards and put a litre in on that
occasion.

My question is, how much damage would be done if I keep the oil at a low
level - in other words, wait for the warning and then stick a pint in, then
wait for the warning again and stick another pint in and so on. The reason I
ask is that the performance of the engine improves noticably when the oil is
low and I rather like it!! Clearly the performance is better because the oil
level is low enough to allow 'things' to move more easily as the drag is
reduced, but it is not low enough to warrant a warning, however that lack of
drag means the oil is possible not doing its job properly???

Opinions / facts / advice please...

TIA.


Ads
  #2  
Old June 16th 10, 12:16 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Dave Savage[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 62
Default Can Olive wait for the beep?


"GT" > wrote in message
...
> 2002 156 2.0JTS + oil levels:
>
> We all know that Alfas use oil. When my oil starts to get low I can hear a
> difference in the engine noise and in the past I have always topped up the
> oil immediately. Only once in 8 years has the computer's oil low message
> beeped at me. I stopped within 200 yards and put a litre in on that
> occasion.
>
> My question is, how much damage would be done if I keep the oil at a low
> level - in other words, wait for the warning and then stick a pint in,
> then wait for the warning again and stick another pint in and so on. The
> reason I ask is that the performance of the engine improves noticably when
> the oil is low and I rather like it!! Clearly the performance is better
> because the oil level is low enough to allow 'things' to move more easily
> as the drag is reduced, but it is not low enough to warrant a warning,
> however that lack of drag means the oil is possible not doing its job
> properly???
>
> Opinions / facts / advice please...
>
> TIA.
>

An observation : although I've heard many times that Alfa's use oil, mine
must be the exception to the rule : in 12 years and 85k miles, I can only
remember topping up (by a pint each time) twice (I check every couple of
weeks or so).

In response to your query :

- I think you're on very dodgy ground waiting for a computer to alert you. I
worked in IT for many, many years, and wouldn't trust a computer futher than
I could throw it (especially a computer in an Alfa Romeo).

- I'm no mechanic (I just enjoy driving the Alfa), but isn't there a risk of
causing (expensive / terminal) damage if one allows the oil level to get
"low" ?

Dave S... 156 2.0 SP2 '98 :>))


  #3  
Old June 16th 10, 01:01 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,075
Default Can Olive wait for the beep?

Dave Savage wrote:
> "GT" > wrote in message
> ...
>> 2002 156 2.0JTS + oil levels:
>>
>> We all know that Alfas use oil.


I have to go with *some*, but your point is made.

>When my oil starts to get low I can hear a
>> difference in the engine noise


Ditto

>and in the past I have always topped up the
>> oil immediately. Only once in 8 years has the computer's oil low message
>> beeped at me. I stopped within 200 yards and put a litre in on that
>> occasion.
>>
>> My question is, how much damage would be done if I keep the oil at a low
>> level - in other words, wait for the warning and then stick a pint in,
>> then wait for the warning again and stick another pint in and so on. The
>> reason I ask is that the performance of the engine improves noticably when
>> the oil is low and I rather like it!! Clearly the performance is better
>> because the oil level is low enough to allow 'things' to move more easily
>> as the drag is reduced, but it is not low enough to warrant a warning,
>> however that lack of drag means the oil is possible not doing its job
>> properly???


I would be *really* surprised if
1)There was any actual increase in performance
2) If it was measurable, that it could be felt without proper equipment.

Simply put much of the oil isn't actually 'in' the engine anyway. It's
hanging around in the sump getting cooled off.

The engine temp should stay pretty constant, so if there is a reduction
in the drag on moving components, it's going to be pretty much due to
reduction of oil in the important bits.

Not good.


>>
>> Opinions / facts / advice please...


The engine should be fine running at minimum. Assuming the designers
have done their job.

>>
>> TIA.
>>

> An observation : although I've heard many times that Alfa's use oil, mine
> must be the exception to the rule : in 12 years and 85k miles, I can only
> remember topping up (by a pint each time) twice (I check every couple of
> weeks or so).
>
> In response to your query :
>
> - I think you're on very dodgy ground waiting for a computer to alert you. I
> worked in IT for many, many years, and wouldn't trust a computer futher than
> I could throw it (especially a computer in an Alfa Romeo).


Fair call.

>
> - I'm no mechanic (I just enjoy driving the Alfa), but isn't there a risk of
> causing (expensive / terminal) damage if one allows the oil level to get
> "low" ?


If it gets *too* low, undoubtedly.


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #4  
Old June 16th 10, 01:36 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
GT[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Can Olive wait for the beep?

"Catman" > wrote in message
...
> Dave Savage wrote:
>> "GT" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> 2002 156 2.0JTS + oil levels:
>>>
>>> We all know that Alfas use oil.

>
> I have to go with *some*, but your point is made.
>
>>When my oil starts to get low I can hear a
>>> difference in the engine noise

>
> Ditto
>
>>and in the past I have always topped up the
>>> oil immediately. Only once in 8 years has the computer's oil low message
>>> beeped at me. I stopped within 200 yards and put a litre in on that
>>> occasion.
>>>
>>> My question is, how much damage would be done if I keep the oil at a low
>>> level - in other words, wait for the warning and then stick a pint in,
>>> then wait for the warning again and stick another pint in and so on. The
>>> reason I ask is that the performance of the engine improves noticably
>>> when the oil is low and I rather like it!! Clearly the performance is
>>> better because the oil level is low enough to allow 'things' to move
>>> more easily as the drag is reduced, but it is not low enough to warrant
>>> a warning, however that lack of drag means the oil is possible not doing
>>> its job properly???

>
> I would be *really* surprised if
> 1)There was any actual increase in performance
> 2) If it was measurable, that it could be felt without proper equipment.


All I can say is that when the oil is low, the car 'picks up' noticably more
quickly as I pass a certain rev point, it actually feels like a very gentle
turbo has kicked in sometimes. This is not a new development it has done
this for the past 8 years, since new! It might not be lower oil level that
is directly causing the change, but it is only noticable when the oil is
low. It is not a performance improvement across all the rev range, just as I
accellerate past about 2000. I know the engine runs in lean-burn up to 1500
revs, but there is no noticable change as it moved out of that into normal
burn. Perhaps this change is set a little higher than intended and that is
what I'm feeling?

> Simply put much of the oil isn't actually 'in' the engine anyway. It's
> hanging around in the sump getting cooled off.


Here's my non-mechanics question: Is the oil pumped round the engine as the
coolant is, or does it 'splash' its way round everything?

I've snipped most of the rest of this, but in defence of the on-board
'Uhura' - mine seems to complain about things more often than ignoring
them - it errs on the side of caution - engine 'failure' warnings after the
occasional cough (not for months now tho), handbrake on warnings when
stop-starting downhill in traffic jams etc, so until this was mentioned, I
*was* happy to rely on it!


  #5  
Old June 16th 10, 06:54 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,075
Default Can Olive wait for the beep?

GT wrote:
> "Catman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dave Savage wrote:
>>> "GT" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> 2002 156 2.0JTS + oil levels:
>>>>
>>>> We all know that Alfas use oil.

>> I have to go with *some*, but your point is made.
>>
>>> When my oil starts to get low I can hear a
>>>> difference in the engine noise

>> Ditto
>>
>>> and in the past I have always topped up the
>>>> oil immediately. Only once in 8 years has the computer's oil low message
>>>> beeped at me. I stopped within 200 yards and put a litre in on that
>>>> occasion.
>>>>
>>>> My question is, how much damage would be done if I keep the oil at a low
>>>> level - in other words, wait for the warning and then stick a pint in,
>>>> then wait for the warning again and stick another pint in and so on. The
>>>> reason I ask is that the performance of the engine improves noticably
>>>> when the oil is low and I rather like it!! Clearly the performance is
>>>> better because the oil level is low enough to allow 'things' to move
>>>> more easily as the drag is reduced, but it is not low enough to warrant
>>>> a warning, however that lack of drag means the oil is possible not doing
>>>> its job properly???

>> I would be *really* surprised if
>> 1)There was any actual increase in performance
>> 2) If it was measurable, that it could be felt without proper equipment.

>
> All I can say is that when the oil is low, the car 'picks up' noticably more
> quickly as I pass a certain rev point, it actually feels like a very gentle
> turbo has kicked in sometimes. This is not a new development it has done
> this for the past 8 years, since new! It might not be lower oil level that
> is directly causing the change, but it is only noticable when the oil is
> low. It is not a performance improvement across all the rev range, just as I
> accellerate past about 2000. I know the engine runs in lean-burn up to 1500
> revs, but there is no noticable change as it moved out of that into normal
> burn. Perhaps this change is set a little higher than intended and that is
> what I'm feeling?


IIRC that cam variation is set by oil pressure, so there *may* be
something in it.

OTOH it's likely that it just seems faster because of the different
sound, or similar.

>
>> Simply put much of the oil isn't actually 'in' the engine anyway. It's
>> hanging around in the sump getting cooled off.

>
> Here's my non-mechanics question: Is the oil pumped round the engine as the
> coolant is, or does it 'splash' its way round everything?


That rather depends on what bit you are talking about. Some bits it's
very much pumped in. Cam bearings, big ends, stuff like that. Some less
crucial splashing occurs. There is probably a significant cooling effect
on (for example) the con rods which mostly move in free air, and are
IIRC, oiled by 'splashing'. ICBW though.
>
> I've snipped most of the rest of this, but in defence of the on-board
> 'Uhura' - mine seems to complain about things more often than ignoring
> them - it errs on the side of caution - engine 'failure' warnings after the
> occasional cough (not for months now tho),


Sensor failure / loose connection.

> handbrake on warnings when
> stop-starting downhill in traffic jams etc, so until this was mentioned, I
> *was* happy to rely on it!


FWIW I rely on mine, mostly



--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #6  
Old June 16th 10, 07:54 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
R C Nesbit
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 142
Default Can Olive wait for the beep?

Gt spoke:
> All I can say is that when the oil is low, the car 'picks up' noticably more
> quickly as I pass a certain rev point, it actually feels like a very gentle
> turbo has kicked in sometimes. This is not a new development it has done
> this for the past 8 years, since new! It might not be lower oil level that
> is directly causing the change, but it is only noticable when the oil is
> low. It is not a performance improvement across all the rev range, just as I
> accellerate past about 2000. I know the engine runs in lean-burn up to 1500
> revs, but there is no noticable change as it moved out of that into normal
> burn. Perhaps this change is set a little higher than intended and that is
> what I'm feeling?


I've said this before about my jtd, mine is 'moody', sometimes sluggish,
sometimes eager to go. Yours might be the same?

Also mine does not seem to use oil, but does use coolant!

--
Rob Pearson
156 1.9jtd sportwagon (now)
164 V6 Lusso (gone)



  #7  
Old June 16th 10, 09:37 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
GT[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Can Olive wait for the beep?

\"R C Nesbit" > wrote in message
...
> Gt spoke:
>> All I can say is that when the oil is low, the car 'picks up' noticably
>> more
>> quickly as I pass a certain rev point, it actually feels like a very
>> gentle
>> turbo has kicked in sometimes. This is not a new development it has done
>> this for the past 8 years, since new! It might not be lower oil level
>> that
>> is directly causing the change, but it is only noticable when the oil is
>> low. It is not a performance improvement across all the rev range, just
>> as I
>> accellerate past about 2000. I know the engine runs in lean-burn up to
>> 1500
>> revs, but there is no noticable change as it moved out of that into
>> normal
>> burn. Perhaps this change is set a little higher than intended and that
>> is
>> what I'm feeling?

>
> I've said this before about my jtd, mine is 'moody', sometimes sluggish,
> sometimes eager to go. Yours might be the same?
>
> Also mine does not seem to use oil, but does use coolant!


Do the diesels normally drink oil? (I mean engine oil, not diesel!)?
I have never had reason to even open the coolant bottle once in 8 years -
its never moved. It drinks oil goes in phases.

They really do have personalities and yes - somedays mine is sluggish, other
days its like a spanked hare. But isn't the MAF a common problem on the
diesels - and the symptoms are what you just described?

I find the following true also - perhaps linked to my current problem:

If I'm driving along at a steady speed with the revs at say 2000, my foot
won't be pressing the pedal much. If I floor it, normally the car
accellerates, but not quickly, but if i press the pedal only a little bit -
a cm or two - then sometimes it takes off like I just whipped it. When I
gradually press the pedal and build it up (or down) to the floor, the power
seems to behave. I have adjusted my driving style to suite over a number of
years and I no longer give it sudden movements in the accellerator, but it
still seems odd that I get more power by putting my foot down a little than
when I stand on the pedal!



  #8  
Old June 16th 10, 09:45 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,075
Default Can Olive wait for the beep?

GT wrote:
> \"R C Nesbit" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Gt spoke:
>>> All I can say is that when the oil is low, the car 'picks up' noticably
>>> more
>>> quickly as I pass a certain rev point, it actually feels like a very
>>> gentle
>>> turbo has kicked in sometimes. This is not a new development it has done
>>> this for the past 8 years, since new! It might not be lower oil level
>>> that
>>> is directly causing the change, but it is only noticable when the oil is
>>> low. It is not a performance improvement across all the rev range, just
>>> as I
>>> accellerate past about 2000. I know the engine runs in lean-burn up to
>>> 1500
>>> revs, but there is no noticable change as it moved out of that into
>>> normal
>>> burn. Perhaps this change is set a little higher than intended and that
>>> is
>>> what I'm feeling?

>> I've said this before about my jtd, mine is 'moody', sometimes sluggish,
>> sometimes eager to go. Yours might be the same?
>>
>> Also mine does not seem to use oil, but does use coolant!

>
> Do the diesels normally drink oil? (I mean engine oil, not diesel!)?
> I have never had reason to even open the coolant bottle once in 8 years -
> its never moved. It drinks oil goes in phases.
>
> They really do have personalities and yes - somedays mine is sluggish, other
> days its like a spanked hare. But isn't the MAF a common problem on the
> diesels - and the symptoms are what you just described?
>
> I find the following true also - perhaps linked to my current problem:
>
> If I'm driving along at a steady speed with the revs at say 2000, my foot
> won't be pressing the pedal much. If I floor it, normally the car
> accellerates, but not quickly, but if i press the pedal only a little bit -
> a cm or two - then sometimes it takes off like I just whipped it. When I
> gradually press the pedal and build it up (or down) to the floor, the power
> seems to behave. I have adjusted my driving style to suite over a number of
> years and I no longer give it sudden movements in the accellerator, but it
> still seems odd that I get more power by putting my foot down a little than
> when I stand on the pedal!
>


Possibly coming on cam, or drive by wire throttle.


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #9  
Old June 17th 10, 10:45 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Zathras
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 742
Default Can Olive wait for the beep?

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:37:29 +0100, "GT" > wrote:

>Do the diesels normally drink oil? (I mean engine oil, not diesel!)?


No.

There were two alleged aspects to the JTS engine that affected oil
consumption:

1/ Wide ranging mechanical tolerances.
2/ Deliberate oil burning to lower cylinder temperatures and improve
emissions.

IIRC, there were reports of both cases in the (earlier) JTS engines
but the true picture was never really established as, in the cases I
heard of, oil consumption just managed to stay within the
specification and Alfa washed their hands of them.

The oil consumption fiasco was one of the reasons I decided an Alfa
diesel was the only sensible route to take (for me). I felt Alfa were
taking the **** by requiring owners treat their petrol engines like
sensitive racing two strokes for reasons that appeared more related to
poor build and/or design because, even if they did have fairly good
power outputs for the time, the cars performance still wasn't
electrifying.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)
  #10  
Old June 18th 10, 09:51 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
GT[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Can Olive wait for the beep?

"Zathras" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:37:29 +0100, "GT" > wrote:
>
>>Do the diesels normally drink oil? (I mean engine oil, not diesel!)?

>
> No.
>
> There were two alleged aspects to the JTS engine that affected oil
> consumption:
>
> 1/ Wide ranging mechanical tolerances.
> 2/ Deliberate oil burning to lower cylinder temperatures and improve
> emissions.
>
> IIRC, there were reports of both cases in the (earlier) JTS engines
> but the true picture was never really established as, in the cases I
> heard of, oil consumption just managed to stay within the
> specification and Alfa washed their hands of them.


Mine is definitely an early one - one of the first 2002 156 2.0JTSs - old
exterior, new interior, 165 2.0JTS. It doesn't really use that much oil - I
think I've gone through about 17 'topup' litres in 8 years over 88,000
miles. Not bad really. Of course that's 15 litres more than some cars would
use!! Also, about 5-6 years ago (after I moved house and the dealer garage
was too far to go for a tin of oil) I started using 'normal' 10w40 instead
of the 10w60 (Selenia Racing) that the manual requests. No changes to report
on performance or efficiency after the change. I don't really hang about,
but I've never really thrashed the car, so hard driving might make a
difference.

> The oil consumption fiasco was one of the reasons I decided an Alfa
> diesel was the only sensible route to take (for me). I felt Alfa were
> taking the **** by requiring owners treat their petrol engines like
> sensitive racing two strokes for reasons that appeared more related to
> poor build and/or design because, even if they did have fairly good
> power outputs for the time, the cars performance still wasn't
> electrifying.



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Annoying beep-beep while driving IT147 Alfa Romeo 4 January 11th 08 11:06 PM
Horn Sounds Weak........................BEEP BEEP..............H E L P Mikepier Ford Explorer 0 April 1st 05 09:21 PM
You wait and you wait your whole life... Jason McCabe Jeep 9 March 7th 05 11:13 PM
2002 A4 - Beep beep beep beep Jimbo Audi 10 December 10th 04 05:03 PM
Beep when accelerating H Davis Ford Explorer 2 November 15th 04 06:01 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AutoBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.