2002 3.8l Mustang 5-speed - cable or hydraulic clutch?

My 2002 3.8l 5-speed mustang has always (since I bought it in April
'09) exhibited an annoying "clunk" sound when i put it in first gear,
and less so, in 2nd gear. However, if I wait a half second or so
(after depressing the clutch), then I can engage 1st gear (or 2nd) and
there is no "clunk" sound. One retired mechanic told me that this was
due to the high speed of the main transmission rotor having to spin
down (after the clutch is depressed), which takes a half second or so,
and, that, when i try to just slam it into 1st then that "clunk" sound
was the main rotor being jarred into a slower speed by the synchromesh
as 1st gear was being engaged.

He suggested that there was no solution but for me to stop trying to
engage 1st gear so abruptly, but, to either wait a half second (after
depressing the clutch), or, to just hold the clutch depressed waiting
for the red light to change, and then 1st gear can be engaged without
any clunking sound. I didn't like that answer, because i was always
taught not to "ride the clutch", and that the clutch should only be
engaged at the moment a gear change engagement was imminent, and that
a good driving habit was to promptly depress the clutch, engage the
gear evenly but without any pause, and then to smoothly but promptly
release the clutch.

Yesterday a Ford parts person told me that my mustang had a hydraulic
clutch, and that, probably what was happening was that the reservoir
for the hydraulic clutch was probably low, and that it was taking a
half second longer for the clutch to be fully disengaged even after I
fully depress the clutch pedal. He said that by waiting a half
second, it was allowing the sponginess (due to air bubbles) in the
hydraulics to finally separate the clutch plate and then the gears
could be engage without any jarring. He told me to look for the
reservoir under the hood on the driver's side lateral to the brake
reservoir. I can't find it, even after a thorough search with a
flashlight and I looked everywhere under the hood.

So, is the clutch on a 2002 3.8L 5-speed mustang driven by
hydraulics? Or a cable?

Does anyone know where the reservoir, if it is hydraulic, is located?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I don't know which actuation method your clutch uses.

I have had a number of different cars whose various clutch actuators
worked well or not-so-well. When they worked not-so-well, and the
transmission behaved the way you describe, I found one action that
/usually/ worked, but it took the half-second you seem to be missing,
to be effective: put in the clutch pedal, pull the shift lever toward
the 2nd gear position, but stop when you encounter a little
resistance, then shift to the gear you want to use. Apparently the
resistance you feel is enough to actuate the synchros, to better match
input and output speeds. It worked on my early MG non-synchro first
gears as well as the 1500-mile-old five-speed in the new-new-new GT/CS
convertible.

--
Frank ess


surface9 wrote:
> My 2002 3.8l 5-speed mustang has always (since I bought it in April
> '09) exhibited an annoying "clunk" sound when i put it in first
> gear, and less so, in 2nd gear. However, if I wait a half second
> or so (after depressing the clutch), then I can engage 1st gear (or
> 2nd) and there is no "clunk" sound. One retired mechanic told me
> that this was due to the high speed of the main transmission rotor
> having to spin down (after the clutch is depressed), which takes a
> half second or so, and, that, when i try to just slam it into 1st
> then that "clunk" sound was the main rotor being jarred into a
> slower speed by the synchromesh as 1st gear was being engaged.
>
> He suggested that there was no solution but for me to stop trying to
> engage 1st gear so abruptly, but, to either wait a half second
> (after depressing the clutch), or, to just hold the clutch
> depressed waiting for the red light to change, and then 1st gear
> can be engaged without any clunking sound. I didn't like that
> answer, because i was always taught not to "ride the clutch", and
> that the clutch should only be engaged at the moment a gear change
> engagement was imminent, and that a good driving habit was to
> promptly depress the clutch, engage the gear evenly but without any
> pause, and then to smoothly but promptly release the clutch.
>
> Yesterday a Ford parts person told me that my mustang had a
> hydraulic clutch, and that, probably what was happening was that
> the reservoir for the hydraulic clutch was probably low, and that
> it was taking a half second longer for the clutch to be fully
> disengaged even after I fully depress the clutch pedal. He said
> that by waiting a half second, it was allowing the sponginess (due
> to air bubbles) in the hydraulics to finally separate the clutch
> plate and then the gears could be engage without any jarring. He
> told me to look for the reservoir under the hood on the driver's
> side lateral to the brake reservoir. I can't find it, even after a
> thorough search with a flashlight and I looked everywhere under the
> hood.
>
> So, is the clutch on a 2002 3.8L 5-speed mustang driven by
> hydraulics? Or a cable?
>
> Does anyone know where the reservoir, if it is hydraulic, is
> located?
>
> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Good evening... I am a dork....

If we look in the owners manual - turn to the index and find clutch.... it
will direct you to page 228.... This will tell you your clutch is cable
operated.... and even describe the adjustment procedure <GASP>. FWIW, we
call the owners manual "the worlds most expensive unread book".

Since we didn't do that, my own personal inclination would be to bend down
and look... either under the car at the clutch housing or under the dash to
see if there was a hydraulic push rod or a cable and quadrant attached to
the clutch pedal.

Now that I have said "cable" you most certainly will double check me on
this... your knees will actually get dirty as you try to prove (or disprove)
the veracity of my claim....

Some things in your life.... avoid that Ford parts person.... he (she) makes
bold statements with little or no real knowledge...

You know what you need to do to avoid the noise... Do it.... The car is 7
****ing years old - if it was a goldfish, it would probably be dead
already... have you checked the trans fluid level lately? Has the trans been
serviced in accordance with manufacturers recommendations?

Your car is a machine... machines develop personalities... to alleviate a
condition such as yours, the car is going to win.... If this is the only
symptom you have, you can either make allowances or spend a bunch of
money.... Unfortunately, with this sort of symptom, you might spend a bunch
of money..... and wind up making allowances, anyway.


"surface9" > wrote in message
...
> My 2002 3.8l 5-speed mustang has always (since I bought it in April
> '09) exhibited an annoying "clunk" sound when i put it in first gear,
> and less so, in 2nd gear. However, if I wait a half second or so
> (after depressing the clutch), then I can engage 1st gear (or 2nd) and
> there is no "clunk" sound. One retired mechanic told me that this was
> due to the high speed of the main transmission rotor having to spin
> down (after the clutch is depressed), which takes a half second or so,
> and, that, when i try to just slam it into 1st then that "clunk" sound
> was the main rotor being jarred into a slower speed by the synchromesh
> as 1st gear was being engaged.
>
> He suggested that there was no solution but for me to stop trying to
> engage 1st gear so abruptly, but, to either wait a half second (after
> depressing the clutch), or, to just hold the clutch depressed waiting
> for the red light to change, and then 1st gear can be engaged without
> any clunking sound. I didn't like that answer, because i was always
> taught not to "ride the clutch", and that the clutch should only be
> engaged at the moment a gear change engagement was imminent, and that
> a good driving habit was to promptly depress the clutch, engage the
> gear evenly but without any pause, and then to smoothly but promptly
> release the clutch.
>
> Yesterday a Ford parts person told me that my mustang had a hydraulic
> clutch, and that, probably what was happening was that the reservoir
> for the hydraulic clutch was probably low, and that it was taking a
> half second longer for the clutch to be fully disengaged even after I
> fully depress the clutch pedal. He said that by waiting a half
> second, it was allowing the sponginess (due to air bubbles) in the
> hydraulics to finally separate the clutch plate and then the gears
> could be engage without any jarring. He told me to look for the
> reservoir under the hood on the driver's side lateral to the brake
> reservoir. I can't find it, even after a thorough search with a
> flashlight and I looked everywhere under the hood.
>
> So, is the clutch on a 2002 3.8L 5-speed mustang driven by
> hydraulics? Or a cable?
>
> Does anyone know where the reservoir, if it is hydraulic, is located?
>
> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
>

When I bought it in April, the previous owner did not have an owner's
manual, and I couldn't find one anywhere - if you know where I can get
one, please advise. I did look and I see that my clutch is cable
controlled, not hydraulic (so much for the Ford parts guy). I had the
transmission level checked and it is full - I also had the rear end
checked and it is good also, as well as the u-joint, which is good.
This jarring sound I hear may be normal for a 2002 mustang 5-speed,
but it caught my attention because my 1997 Ranger 5-speed works
flawlessly with no jarring sounds at all. It is true that I can
minimize this sound by nudging the gear either towards 1st or 2nd
(with the clutch out), but stopping short of engaging either gear.
Just by nudging the shift in that direction (1st or 2nd), I hear the
jarring sound (but less loud), and, then it goes away and I can go
ahead and depress the clutch and go right into 1st or 2nd. That is my
current work-around when waiting at a red light or after coming to a
full stop at an intersection. I just leave the clutch out and nudge
the gear towards 1st gently and I hear a slight jarring sound and then
i when I am ready to go into 1st there is no sound at all. But, after
I gain speed in 1st, and am ready to shift into 2nd, I again hear that
jarring sound when i go into 2nd because I don't have time to pause
since there are usually cars behind me with impatient drivers. If no
one is behind me, then, when I shift from 1st to 2nd and take a half
second pause, there is no jarring sound. Ditto for shifting from 2nd
to 3rd, but, much less pronounced (I didn't even notice it from 2nd to
3rd until I starting taking special care to listen for it).

So, what I am wondering is whether or not this intermittent jarring
sound (which I can repeat any time I want, and can avoid with the
pausing or pre-engagement nudging maneuver), is doing any damage to
the clutch or gear box - if not, then I'll just live with it. It
makes me think that somehow the parts of the synchromesh that make the
initial contact when going into 1st or 2nd may be worn and not doing
the job up to spec - in that case, i would want to consider having
those parts replaced. I just don't know. Other than that, this car
is a really fun car to drive, it is peppy, and the mileage is low
(68K) so I think I should have many years of good service from it. I
really would like to have a better understanding of this jarring
sound, just so I can know what whether or not I need to do something
about it.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:20:04 -0700, surface9 rearranged some electrons to
say:

> When I bought it in April, the previous owner did not have an owner's
> manual, and I couldn't find one anywhere - if you know where I can get
> one, please advise.

You can download one from Ford's website. Then you can perform the
adjustment procedure.

I found the owner's manual at the ford website, and read about how to
adjust the clutch (motor off, 1st gear, pull up on the clutch, then
press all the way down and listen for a clicking sound). I did this
but it didn't seem to have any effect on my "jarring" sound when going
into 1st gear. I make sure always that I fully depress the clutch (a
neighbor kept insisting that I probably wasn't pushing the clutch all
the way in). And I can say that when I first start the car, I have to
back out of the garage (in reverse), and I don't hear any sound at all
when I then go into 1st gear after that - I noticed that the way it
then goes in so smoothly I wished it would ALWAYS engage like that.
But, when I get ready to go into 2nd, if I follow my normal cadence
(like I have done for years in my Ranger) by a) letting off the
accelerator, b) fully and quickly depressing the clutch, and, c)
straightaway moving the gearshift lever down into 2nd, then I hear a
jarring sound, which also seems to reverberate all throughout the
underside of the vehicle (one observer thought it might be the rear
end, but I had that fully inspected when I first got this car back in
April).

As to the jarring sound, I guess it is a little like the sound you
would hear if you suddenly stopped a spinning object like a gyroscope
by thrusting a screw driver into the spokes. THUD! After I come to a
full stop, such as at a red light, and I am sitting there in neutral
(I notice it tacks at around 900), then, when the light changes, I
follow my lifelong cadence of a) depressing the clutch, b) moving the
gearshift lever forward into 1st gear, and c) releasing the clutch as
I depress the gas pedal. I have been driving standards ALL MY LIFE,
and my cadence was taught to me by experts a long time ago. I never
hear anything when I am in my Ranger. But, when I do this in my
Mustang (as above), then, just as I am moving the gearshift lever down
into 1st gear, I hear this THUD before it goes clean into gear. It
does sound like the whole undercarriage is jolted somewhat. If,
however, while I am still waiting for the red light to change, I nudge
the gearshift lever towards 1st gear (or 2nd) with the clutch still
up, and only moving the gearshift lever slightly towards 1st, I hear a
small thud, and it does truly sound like if you were apply a brake to
a free spinning suspended wheel, but, since I am not hard pressing it,
but only nudging it, then, the jarring sound is diminished, and only
lasts for about 1/2 second or less. After that, I can continue
waiting for the light to change, and, then go right into 1st gear with
NO sound or jarring at all. But, even then, when I go into 2nd, I
hear (and feel) that THUD.

The mechanics I have had look at it so far have not been very much
interested - mostly because (I think) they do NOT KNOW what is going
on (as revealed by some of their suggestions, like maybe being a loose
u-joint), and, also, they can't make it happen if they pause slightly
after depressing the clutch before engaging either 1st or 2nd gear. I
get frustrated trying to get to the bottom of this - I am figuring it
probably is the main rotor still spinning for a half second or so and
maybe my normal shifting cadence (which has always worked fine and
still does with the ranger) is just too speedy for this mustang -
maybe this is just the way it was designed. But, then, I don't really
believe that either - I rather think that something within the
transmission is worn and not doing its job somehow or other. I
wouldn't describe my cadence as "slamming" it into gear, but, just NOT
PAUSING, but promptly and immediately moving the gearshift lever into
1st after fully depressing the clutch to the floor. I am sure that
the clutch pedal is bottomed out, but, then, I am not in the habit of
lingering after that, but, going right ahead and moving into 1st
gear. That seems so natural and it shouldn't be a problem or cause
any jarring or thudding sounds.

I sure wish I could resolve this nagging problem.

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:55:46 -0700, surface9 rearranged some electrons to
say:

> I found the owner's manual at the ford website, and read about how to
> adjust the clutch (motor off, 1st gear, pull up on the clutch, then
> press all the way down and listen for a clicking sound). I did this but
> it didn't seem to have any effect on my "jarring" sound when going into
> 1st gear. I make sure always that I fully depress the clutch (a
> neighbor kept insisting that I probably wasn't pushing the clutch all
> the way in). And I can say that when I first start the car, I have to
> back out of the garage (in reverse), and I don't hear any sound at all
> when I then go into 1st gear after that - I noticed that the way it
> then goes in so smoothly I wished it would ALWAYS engage like that. But,
> when I get ready to go into 2nd, if I follow my normal cadence (like I
> have done for years in my Ranger) by a) letting off the accelerator, b)
> fully and quickly depressing the clutch, and, c) straightaway moving the
> gearshift lever down into 2nd, then I hear a jarring sound, which also
> seems to reverberate all throughout the underside of the vehicle (one
> observer thought it might be the rear end, but I had that fully
> inspected when I first got this car back in April).
>
> As to the jarring sound, I guess it is a little like the sound you would
> hear if you suddenly stopped a spinning object like a gyroscope by
> thrusting a screw driver into the spokes. THUD! After I come to a full
> stop, such as at a red light, and I am sitting there in neutral (I
> notice it tacks at around 900), then, when the light changes, I follow
> my lifelong cadence of a) depressing the clutch, b) moving the gearshift
> lever forward into 1st gear, and c) releasing the clutch as I depress
> the gas pedal. I have been driving standards ALL MY LIFE, and my
> cadence was taught to me by experts a long time ago. I never hear
> anything when I am in my Ranger. But, when I do this in my Mustang (as
> above), then, just as I am moving the gearshift lever down into 1st
> gear, I hear this THUD before it goes clean into gear. It does sound
> like the whole undercarriage is jolted somewhat. If, however, while I
> am still waiting for the red light to change, I nudge the gearshift
> lever towards 1st gear (or 2nd) with the clutch still up, and only
> moving the gearshift lever slightly towards 1st, I hear a small thud,
> and it does truly sound like if you were apply a brake to a free
> spinning suspended wheel, but, since I am not hard pressing it, but only
> nudging it, then, the jarring sound is diminished, and only lasts for
> about 1/2 second or less. After that, I can continue waiting for the
> light to change, and, then go right into 1st gear with NO sound or
> jarring at all. But, even then, when I go into 2nd, I hear (and feel)
> that THUD.
>
> The mechanics I have had look at it so far have not been very much
> interested - mostly because (I think) they do NOT KNOW what is going on
> (as revealed by some of their suggestions, like maybe being a loose
> u-joint), and, also, they can't make it happen if they pause slightly
> after depressing the clutch before engaging either 1st or 2nd gear. I
> get frustrated trying to get to the bottom of this - I am figuring it
> probably is the main rotor still spinning for a half second or so and
> maybe my normal shifting cadence (which has always worked fine and still
> does with the ranger) is just too speedy for this mustang - maybe this
> is just the way it was designed. But, then, I don't really believe that
> either - I rather think that something within the transmission is worn
> and not doing its job somehow or other. I wouldn't describe my cadence
> as "slamming" it into gear, but, just NOT PAUSING, but promptly and
> immediately moving the gearshift lever into 1st after fully depressing
> the clutch to the floor. I am sure that the clutch pedal is bottomed
> out, but, then, I am not in the habit of lingering after that, but,
> going right ahead and moving into 1st gear. That seems so natural and
> it shouldn't be a problem or cause any jarring or thudding sounds.
>
> I sure wish I could resolve this nagging problem.

Try double-clutching when you drive it... if that causes the noise to
diminish, then the problem may be worn out synchros in the transmission.

On Jul 26, 6:53*pm, david > wrote:

>
> Try double-clutching when you drive it... if that causes the noise to
> diminish, then the problem may be worn out synchros in the transmission.

I am embarrased to admit it, but, I don't know exactly what "double-
clutching" is.

Do you mean just depressing the clutch twice? (depressing, releasing,
and then depressing again)?

I must have heard that term before, but, I don't really know what it
means.

surface9 wrote:
> On Jul 26, 6:53 pm, david > wrote:
>
>> Try double-clutching when you drive it... if that causes the noise to
>> diminish, then the problem may be worn out synchros in the transmission.
>
> I am embarrased to admit it, but, I don't know exactly what "double-
> clutching" is.
>
> Do you mean just depressing the clutch twice? (depressing, releasing,
> and then depressing again)?
>
> I must have heard that term before, but, I don't really know what it
> means.
>
>
>
Double clutching is pressing foot down, popping it out of gear, letting
the clutch out, pressing the clutch again and shifting to the next gear.

I think you said that you checked your fluid level and it was fine, but
you might try changing it, maybe with some synthetic.

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:04:22 -0700, surface9 rearranged some electrons to
say:

> On Jul 26, 6:53Â*pm, david > wrote:
>
>
>> Try double-clutching when you drive it... if that causes the noise to
>> diminish, then the problem may be worn out synchros in the
>> transmission.
>
> I am embarrased to admit it, but, I don't know exactly what "double-
> clutching" is.
>
> Do you mean just depressing the clutch twice? (depressing, releasing,
> and then depressing again)?
>
> I must have heard that term before, but, I don't really know what it
> means.

Kids.... <:-/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_clutch