Oil changes

I own an 2007 Saturn Aura XR with about 59,000 miles. I've had the
car since July of last year and so far I've put on about 23,000
miles. I drive on average of about 950 miles per week. I've only had
the oil changed twice in the nearly 6 months that I've owned it. Both
times that I've had it changed I've waited until the "oil life"
reading on the DIC had decremented itself down to 0%. Today, when I
was in for my most recent oil change, the oil change tech scolded me
for not bringing in the car sooner. I specified that it had been
nearly 11,000 miles since my last change but that the oil life reading
had only very recently went all the way down to 0%. He told me that I
can't use that as an indicator as to when the oil should be changed if
I'm using standard oil. He said that I'd need to be using a premium
type oil in order to go that long without a change. I double checked
my owners manual and reread the portion that talked about oil
changes. As I expected, the manual said that the car uses the onboard
computer to determine when the oil needs to be changed. As well, the
manual didn't say anything at all about only using high grade
synthetic oils. My question is this - if I'm using regular grade 10w
- 30 oil should I "trust" the car and only get my oil changed when the
life meter decrements itself all the way down to, or near, 0% (even if
this means that 10 or 11 thousand miles have passed since my last
change) or should I religiously change my oil every 3 months or 3,000
miles as has been preached to us since time immeasurable. I think
that the oil change tech was probably just regurgitating what he was
told when he was hired - "tell everyone that has gone more then 3
months or 3,000 miles since their last change that this is a bad
practice and that it should be done every 3 months or 3,000
regardless." Thanks for any help!

I regularly check my oil level. (after all, most saturn's consume some oil)
Don't just look at the level of the oil on the dipstick, look at the color
too (and smell). When it is getting dark, it's probably worth changing.

The change oil indicator is set by the ECU and is related to engine
temperature, RPM and interval since last change. It is good but not
infallible.

"Shawn" > wrote in message
...
> I own an 2007 Saturn Aura XR with about 59,000 miles. I've had the
> car since July of last year and so far I've put on about 23,000
> miles. I drive on average of about 950 miles per week. I've only had
> the oil changed twice in the nearly 6 months that I've owned it. Both
> times that I've had it changed I've waited until the "oil life"
> reading on the DIC had decremented itself down to 0%. Today, when I
> was in for my most recent oil change, the oil change tech scolded me
> for not bringing in the car sooner. I specified that it had been
> nearly 11,000 miles since my last change but that the oil life reading
> had only very recently went all the way down to 0%. He told me that I
> can't use that as an indicator as to when the oil should be changed if
> I'm using standard oil. He said that I'd need to be using a premium
> type oil in order to go that long without a change. I double checked
> my owners manual and reread the portion that talked about oil
> changes. As I expected, the manual said that the car uses the onboard
> computer to determine when the oil needs to be changed. As well, the
> manual didn't say anything at all about only using high grade
> synthetic oils. My question is this - if I'm using regular grade 10w
> - 30 oil should I "trust" the car and only get my oil changed when the
> life meter decrements itself all the way down to, or near, 0% (even if
> this means that 10 or 11 thousand miles have passed since my last
> change) or should I religiously change my oil every 3 months or 3,000
> miles as has been preached to us since time immeasurable. I think
> that the oil change tech was probably just regurgitating what he was
> told when he was hired - "tell everyone that has gone more then 3
> months or 3,000 miles since their last change that this is a bad
> practice and that it should be done every 3 months or 3,000
> regardless." Thanks for any help!

Shawn,
Remember, the mechanic has a goal of you changing your oil more
frequently. A biased opinion indeed. I just don't like when a shop
gets aggressive at pushing an oil change or other maintenance when I
have to take it in for a state inspection. A simple "No thanks" falls
on deaf ears. I had an oil change done in December as my state
inspection was due. I usually do my own oil change, but thought I was
going to have the inspection shop do it as it was too cold and miserable
outside to do it myself. They charged $40.00 for the oil change. The
last time I had any shop do an oil change was about 15 years ago and it
was $25.00.

chuck

On 1/22/2010 3:49 PM, Shawn wrote:
> I own an 2007 Saturn Aura XR with about 59,000 miles. I've had the
> car since July of last year and so far I've put on about 23,000
> miles. I drive on average of about 950 miles per week. I've only had
> the oil changed twice in the nearly 6 months that I've owned it. Both
> times that I've had it changed I've waited until the "oil life"
> reading on the DIC had decremented itself down to 0%. Today, when I
> was in for my most recent oil change, the oil change tech scolded me
> for not bringing in the car sooner. I specified that it had been
> nearly 11,000 miles since my last change but that the oil life reading
> had only very recently went all the way down to 0%. He told me that I
> can't use that as an indicator as to when the oil should be changed if
> I'm using standard oil. He said that I'd need to be using a premium
> type oil in order to go that long without a change. I double checked
> my owners manual and reread the portion that talked about oil
> changes. As I expected, the manual said that the car uses the onboard
> computer to determine when the oil needs to be changed. As well, the
> manual didn't say anything at all about only using high grade
> synthetic oils. My question is this - if I'm using regular grade 10w
> - 30 oil should I "trust" the car and only get my oil changed when the
> life meter decrements itself all the way down to, or near, 0% (even if
> this means that 10 or 11 thousand miles have passed since my last
> change) or should I religiously change my oil every 3 months or 3,000
> miles as has been preached to us since time immeasurable. I think
> that the oil change tech was probably just regurgitating what he was
> told when he was hired - "tell everyone that has gone more then 3
> months or 3,000 miles since their last change that this is a bad
> practice and that it should be done every 3 months or 3,000
> regardless." Thanks for any help!

From the standpoint of the Saturn techs I used to work with, specifically
how they handled their *own* newer cars (and one of the best guys did in
fact have an '07 Aura):

They were more comfortable with the 3 month/3000 mile framework, but
recognized that the gap can be longer on the newer cars. That said, they
were really uncomfortable with letting it go longer than 5 mos/5000 miles.

It's all fine and good to say "well, the COMPUTER said I didn't need to
bother to change my oil that often." The problem with that is that long
gaps (especially miles) between changes does shorten the life of the engine
somewhat. And knowing that you followed the wishes of the computer will not
be much consolation if you end up having major engine problems at a
relatively young engine age.

--pig


On 1/22/10 3:49 PM, in article
, "Shawn"
> wrote:

> I own an 2007 Saturn Aura XR with about 59,000 miles. I've had the
> car since July of last year and so far I've put on about 23,000
> miles. I drive on average of about 950 miles per week. I've only had
> the oil changed twice in the nearly 6 months that I've owned it. Both
> times that I've had it changed I've waited until the "oil life"
> reading on the DIC had decremented itself down to 0%. Today, when I
> was in for my most recent oil change, the oil change tech scolded me
> for not bringing in the car sooner. I specified that it had been
> nearly 11,000 miles since my last change but that the oil life reading
> had only very recently went all the way down to 0%. He told me that I
> can't use that as an indicator as to when the oil should be changed if
> I'm using standard oil. He said that I'd need to be using a premium
> type oil in order to go that long without a change. I double checked
> my owners manual and reread the portion that talked about oil
> changes. As I expected, the manual said that the car uses the onboard
> computer to determine when the oil needs to be changed. As well, the
> manual didn't say anything at all about only using high grade
> synthetic oils. My question is this - if I'm using regular grade 10w
> - 30 oil should I "trust" the car and only get my oil changed when the
> life meter decrements itself all the way down to, or near, 0% (even if
> this means that 10 or 11 thousand miles have passed since my last
> change) or should I religiously change my oil every 3 months or 3,000
> miles as has been preached to us since time immeasurable. I think
> that the oil change tech was probably just regurgitating what he was
> told when he was hired - "tell everyone that has gone more then 3
> months or 3,000 miles since their last change that this is a bad
> practice and that it should be done every 3 months or 3,000
> regardless." Thanks for any help!

Thanks to all that provided an informative reply!

"Shawn" > wrote in message
...
>I own an 2007 Saturn Aura XR with about 59,000 miles. I've had the
> car since July of last year and so far I've put on about 23,000
> miles. I drive on average of about 950 miles per week. I've only had
> the oil changed twice in the nearly 6 months that I've owned it. Both
> times that I've had it changed I've waited until the "oil life"
> reading on the DIC had decremented itself down to 0%. Today, when I
> was in for my most recent oil change, the oil change tech scolded me
> for not bringing in the car sooner. I specified that it had been
> nearly 11,000 miles since my last change but that the oil life reading
> had only very recently went all the way down to 0%. He told me that I
> can't use that as an indicator as to when the oil should be changed if
> I'm using standard oil. He said that I'd need to be using a premium
> type oil in order to go that long without a change. I double checked
> my owners manual and reread the portion that talked about oil
> changes. As I expected, the manual said that the car uses the onboard
> computer to determine when the oil needs to be changed. As well, the
> manual didn't say anything at all about only using high grade
> synthetic oils. My question is this - if I'm using regular grade 10w
> - 30 oil should I "trust" the car and only get my oil changed when the
> life meter decrements itself all the way down to, or near, 0% (even if
> this means that 10 or 11 thousand miles have passed since my last
> change) or should I religiously change my oil every 3 months or 3,000
> miles as has been preached to us since time immeasurable. I think
> that the oil change tech was probably just regurgitating what he was
> told when he was hired - "tell everyone that has gone more then 3
> months or 3,000 miles since their last change that this is a bad
> practice and that it should be done every 3 months or 3,000
> regardless." Thanks for any help!

If your computer is wrong, it will not be paying for your repairs!

IMHO,
Modern oils are better than older formulations.
Modern metallurgy and manufacturing processes and tolerances are better and
more consistent than in the past, QC is also better.
Most modern machinery IS MUCH BETTER and is capable of a far longer service
life.
Oil does NOT wear out.

But-
IMHO, The problem with extending oil change intervals is that the still not
worn out? oil will contain high amounts of suspended wear particles as well
as chemical impurities that are both harmful to operating and non operating
machinery. IMHO the use of expensive premium or synthetic oils makes
virtually no difference to the oil contamination levels, and their use is
not reason enough to extend drain intervals. IMHO, Synthetic is superior
but can be justified only in very cold (artic) use, but that usage also
probably qualifies as severe and would also require reduced drain intervals.

Oil change intervals are a management problem. Too soon or too long are
both inefficient and uneconomic as well as both increasing environmental
harm.

After break-in, I experimented with extending the drain intervals on my then
new S1 series to the recommended maximum of 10,000km (6000mi) but was not
happy with either the look of the drained oil or the lab analysis or the
burnoff rate which was much higher after about the 6000km (3600mi) mark. I
adopted a 6000km drain interval for the first 250,000km then shortened that
to the current 5000km (3000mi) interval.

Others S series experience and opinion is that the timing chain tensioner is
the first part that will gum up and fail from old dirty oil. Keeping this
part functioning properly will save MUCH more in repair costs than any
savings from extended drain intervals.

IMHO economic management suggests that the best time to change oil is when
the engine is down to the add mark as a full change only costs 3 ltrs (and a
filter) more than a simple add. If you are really frugal you could change
the filter every second change, but I prefer to change both at the same time
for lots of reasons.

I now have 340,000km on the car and get ~1800km to the first ltr oil add,
then ~1600km to the second ltr add. It will normally be down to the third
add mark after ~1200 more and at that point I think it is a good time to
just drain and refill with clean.

Once you have the few simple tools and some experience, changing oil is
simple and a LOT quicker AND much cheaper than getting poor quality bulk oil
and filters from a change $hop. It also gives me a chance to do a good
visual inspection for leaks or other problems. I have learned to change the
filter OK but have never found a good way to solve the oil spill from the
filter problem and just place a rag on the frame under the axle. I use
ramps made from 2 thicknesses of 2x8 nailed together and bevelled at the
front edge, (I suspect a bigger guy would need three thicknesses).

I purchase my filters by the dozen or more whenever I can negotiate a good
price from a parts jobber. I use only top quality filters (currently Wix,
never Fram). I have tried most quality oils but my current year round
favorite is Wally's Super Tech in 5w30, I buy several cases whenever the
price is right.

I refill ltr size containers from the large 4ltr jugs and carry 2 in the car
so I can add when only down a little bit and try to run near the full mark
all the time. One ltr fits beside the brake master cylinder and the second
on the right lower side of the rad.

I think that frequent oil changes are the easiest and cheapest way of
minimizing repair co$t$ and of maximizing service life. The only thing
worse than not changing your engine (and transmission) oil is not checking
the levels regularly (EVERY fuel up, or more) frequently. It is more
important to change transmission oil frequently (first one @ ~10,000km then
second @50,000km) when the car is new and IMHO intervals can be extended (to
100,000km+) after good (150,000km) break-in. A manual trans change only
uses under 3 ltrs and is cheap easy maintenance. I use only extended life
coolant and change that every 5 years.

This car has 340,000km, and has had no engine or trans problems or repairs,
is still on the factory clutch and original water pump. Alternators are
reported as problematic so I picked up a used spare but am still on the
original. IMHE, 'nothing you have a spare part for ever breaks.'

Good luck, YMMV

On Jan 23, 11:52*pm, "Private" > wrote:
> "Shawn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> >I own an 2007 Saturn Aura XR with about 59,000 miles. *I've had the
> > car since July of last year and so far I've put on about 23,000
> > miles. *I drive on average of about 950 miles per week. *I've only had
> > the oil changed twice in the nearly 6 months that I've owned it. *Both
> > times that I've had it changed I've waited until the "oil life"
> > reading on the DIC had decremented itself down to 0%. *Today, when I
> > was in for my most recent oil change, the oil change tech scolded me
> > for not bringing in the car sooner. *I specified that it had been
> > nearly 11,000 miles since my last change but that the oil life reading
> > had only very recently went all the way down to 0%. *He told me that I
> > can't use that as an indicator as to when the oil should be changed if
> > I'm using standard oil. *He said that I'd need to be using a premium
> > type oil in order to go that long without a change. *I double checked
> > my owners manual and reread the portion that talked about oil
> > changes. *As I expected, the manual said that the car uses the onboard
> > computer to determine when the oil needs to be changed. *As well, the
> > manual didn't say anything at all about only using high grade
> > synthetic oils. *My question is this - if I'm using regular grade 10w
> > - 30 oil should I "trust" the car and only get my oil changed when the
> > life meter decrements itself all the way down to, or near, 0% (even if
> > this means that 10 or 11 thousand miles have passed since my last
> > change) or should I religiously change my oil every 3 months or 3,000
> > miles as has been preached to us since time immeasurable. *I think
> > that the oil change tech was probably just regurgitating what he was
> > told when he was hired - *"tell everyone that has gone more then 3
> > months or 3,000 miles since their last change that this is a bad
> > practice and that it should be done every 3 months or 3,000
> > regardless." *Thanks for any help!
>
> If your computer is wrong, it will not be paying for your repairs!
>
> IMHO,
> Modern oils are better than older formulations.
> Modern metallurgy and manufacturing processes and tolerances are better and
> more consistent than in the past, QC is also better.
> Most modern machinery IS MUCH BETTER and is capable of a far longer service
> life.
> Oil does NOT wear out.
>
> But-
> IMHO, The problem with extending oil change intervals is that the still not
> worn out? oil will contain high amounts of suspended wear particles as well
> as chemical impurities that are both harmful to operating and non operating
> machinery. *IMHO the use of expensive premium or synthetic oils makes
> virtually no difference to the oil contamination levels, and their use is
> not reason enough to extend drain intervals. *IMHO, Synthetic is superior
> but can be justified only in very cold (artic) use, but that usage also
> probably qualifies as severe and would also require reduced drain intervals.
>
> Oil change intervals are a management problem. *Too soon or too long are
> both inefficient and uneconomic as well as both increasing environmental
> harm.
>
> After break-in, I experimented with extending the drain intervals on my then
> new S1 series to the recommended maximum of 10,000km (6000mi) but was not
> happy with either the look of the drained oil or the lab analysis or the
> burnoff rate which was much higher after about the 6000km (3600mi) mark. *I
> adopted a 6000km drain interval for the first 250,000km then shortened that
> to the current 5000km (3000mi) interval.
>
> Others S series experience and opinion is that the timing chain tensioner is
> the first part that will gum up and fail from old dirty oil. *Keeping this
> part functioning properly will save MUCH more in repair costs than any
> savings from extended drain intervals.
>
> IMHO economic management suggests that the best time to change oil is when
> the engine is down to the add mark as a full change only costs 3 ltrs (and a
> filter) more than a simple add. *If you are really frugal you could change
> the filter every second change, but I prefer to change both at the same time
> for lots of reasons.
>
> I now have 340,000km on the car and get ~1800km to the first ltr oil add,
> then ~1600km to the second ltr add. *It will normally be down to the third
> add mark after ~1200 more and at that point I think it is a good time to
> just drain and refill with clean.
>
> Once you have the few simple tools and some experience, changing oil is
> simple and a LOT quicker AND much cheaper than getting poor quality bulk oil
> and filters from a change $hop. *It also gives me a chance to do a good
> visual inspection for leaks or other problems. *I have learned to change the
> filter OK but have never found a good way to solve the oil spill from the
> filter problem and just place a rag on the frame under the axle. *I use
> ramps made from 2 thicknesses of 2x8 nailed together and bevelled at the
> front edge, (I suspect a bigger guy would need three thicknesses).
>
> I purchase my filters by the dozen or more whenever I can negotiate a good
> price from a parts jobber. *I use only top quality filters (currently Wix,
> never Fram). *I have tried most quality oils but my current year round
> favorite is Wally's Super Tech in 5w30, I buy several cases whenever the
> price is right.
>
> I refill ltr size containers from the large 4ltr jugs and carry 2 in the car
> so I can add when only down a little bit and try to run near the full mark
> all the time. *One ltr fits beside the brake master cylinder and the second
> on the right lower side of the rad.
>
> I think that frequent oil changes are the easiest and cheapest way of
> minimizing repair co$t$ and of maximizing service life. *The only thing
> worse than not changing your engine (and transmission) oil is not checking
> the levels regularly (EVERY fuel up, or more) frequently. *It is more
> important to change transmission oil frequently (first one @ ~10,000km then
> second @50,000km) when the car is new and IMHO intervals can be extended (to
> 100,000km+) after good (150,000km) break-in. *A manual trans change only
> uses under 3 ltrs and is cheap easy maintenance. *I use only extended life
> coolant and change that every 5 years.
>
> This car has 340,000km, and has had no engine or trans problems or repairs,
> is still on the factory clutch and original water pump. *Alternators are
> reported as problematic so I picked up a used spare but am still on the
> original. *IMHE, 'nothing you have a spare part for ever breaks.'
>
> Good luck, YMMV

Thanks so much for the helpful information. . .!!

I used to take my 92 Saturn SL1 to the dealer for oil changes when it
was new, as this is what I was told by their salespeople.
Little did I know, I could have taken it to Mr. Lube and paid half of
what the dealership charged me (about 60 dollars back in early
nineties), but... I was young and stupid back then and didn't know any
better.

Soon as the warranty expired, I started doing my own changes and at
100,000 km I switched to Synthetic. Almost 18 years later I'm still
using the same brand of Synth oil and a el-cheapo filter from Canadian
Tire.
The car now has 554,000 kms on it (334,000 mi) and about the only
MAJOR engine job I had to do on it was timing chain swap about 2
months ago (one of the guides shattered).
The compression in each cylinder is 185+ PSI cold and dry. Engine
consumes about a quart every 10,000 kms (6000 mi) and that's when I do
my changes too - no sooner and no later than that.

Alex

Congratulations, sounds like you have broke the bank on this one. Your
cumulative miles suggest that you probably do a lot of highway driving.
Is that correct?

My 97 SL2 has been good to me. Currently have 209,000 miles. The first
7 years was virtually all highway driving, which I think contributed to
its longevity. I did dealer oil changes about every 3000 miles, but
they only charged $19 - $25 each.

I'm now considering dropping it and buying something other than GM. I'm
kinda' ****ed off at them. The A/C compressor died this winter, and I'm
not looking forward to a summer of sweltering heat. I figure 13 years
is pretty good, but now it's time to put Old Yeller down.

JimR


navaidstech wrote:
> I used to take my 92 Saturn SL1 to the dealer for oil changes when it
> was new, as this is what I was told by their salespeople.
> Little did I know, I could have taken it to Mr. Lube and paid half of
> what the dealership charged me (about 60 dollars back in early
> nineties), but... I was young and stupid back then and didn't know any
> better.
>
> Soon as the warranty expired, I started doing my own changes and at
> 100,000 km I switched to Synthetic. Almost 18 years later I'm still
> using the same brand of Synth oil and a el-cheapo filter from Canadian
> Tire.
> The car now has 554,000 kms on it (334,000 mi) and about the only
> MAJOR engine job I had to do on it was timing chain swap about 2
> months ago (one of the guides shattered).
> The compression in each cylinder is 185+ PSI cold and dry. Engine
> consumes about a quart every 10,000 kms (6000 mi) and that's when I do
> my changes too - no sooner and no later than that.
>
> Alex

"navaidstech" > wrote in message
...
>I used to take my 92 Saturn SL1 to the dealer for oil changes when it
> was new, as this is what I was told by their salespeople.
> Little did I know, I could have taken it to Mr. Lube and paid half of
> what the dealership charged me (about 60 dollars back in early
> nineties), but... I was young and stupid back then and didn't know any
> better.
>
> Soon as the warranty expired, I started doing my own changes and at
> 100,000 km I switched to Synthetic. Almost 18 years later I'm still
> using the same brand of Synth oil and a el-cheapo filter from Canadian
> Tire.
> The car now has 554,000 kms on it (334,000 mi) and about the only
> MAJOR engine job I had to do on it was timing chain swap about 2
> months ago (one of the guides shattered).
> The compression in each cylinder is 185+ PSI cold and dry. Engine
> consumes about a quart every 10,000 kms (6000 mi) and that's when I do
> my changes too - no sooner and no later than that.
>
> Alex

IMHO, This is excellent service life, and your maintenance program and
schedule is obviously working well for your driving conditions and your
driving style. I suspect you do mostly highway with few short trips, have a
std tranny and keep your revs low. Are you still on your original clutch?

Good luck,