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Request for buying advice.



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 8th 09, 09:19 PM posted to rec.autos.4x4,uk.rec.cars.4x4
José Rui Faustino de Sousa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Request for buying advice.

Hi!



I am looking to buy a second hand 4x4. Hopefully under 10 years old and
under 100000km (60000miles).



I want it to be a manual transmission diesel and to be a good off
roader.



I am looking for a short wheel base (hopefully not much over 4 meters)
cargo capacity is not very important.



This will be a daily driver, most of the time I will be ridding alone
but it must, occasionally, take at least 5 persons reasonably
comfortably for longer trips.



So this excludes a Land Rover Defender 90 Td5 (longitudinal benches)(too
underpowered). The newer versions are too expensive even second hand.



I am not sure if there is a Wrangler diesel version that carries 5
(excluding the unlimited (too long))



Toyota Land Cruisers (heavy duty) are not imported here so the only
option would be a kzj70 (probably too old) or kzj90 (light-duty, prado,
land cruiser II)



An Opel Monterey (Isuzu Trooper) (probably too old too)



A Mitsubishi Pajero (Montero, Shogun) does not look like the best off
roader but, well, looks can be deceiving.



I have the impression that Suzukis in general are too weak and offer too
little ground clearance.



I probably like the looks of the kzj70 and the Opel Monterey the best.
Yes if it looks too much like an egg I tend to doubt the car's off road
abilities... ;-)



So what do you nice guys advice? What would be the option that would be
the best compromise between my requirements and good off road ability.



Any other suggestions?



Thank you very much.



Best regards,

José Rui




Ads
  #2  
Old March 8th 09, 09:56 PM posted to rec.autos.4x4,uk.rec.cars.4x4
Steve Firth
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Posts: 337
Default Request for buying advice.

José Rui Faustino de Sousa > wrote:

> So what do you nice guys advice? What would be the option that would be
> the best compromise between my requirements and good off road ability.


Like most buyers you start off by saying you don't want much then set
out a list of requirements that are close to impossible to find in one
vehicle.

If you want to seat five in comfort than SWB vehicles are all going to
be a compromise in either ability to carry luggage or legroom. On longer
trips there's usually a requirement to take at least one bag for each
passenger plus some extra supplies such as water / food. You will also
find that good, strong, cheap off-roaders are difficult to find and when
you do find them they are uncomfortable and slow to drive long
distances. You must also make allowances for the poor directional
stability and the ease with which you can roll such a vehicle on road.

There's also the problem for someone from the UK that we don't really
know much about the price, tax and availability of such vehicles in
Portugal.

So given all the caveats:

Wrangler - simply awful avoid like the plague.

Land Rover TD5 - too underpowered? It's not a racing vehicle and the
engine is perfect for mixed on/off road use. I'd be worried about
reliability rather than ability/performance. Every LR product I have had
has cost a fortune to run.

Land Cruisers - Excellent, especially the 4.2 diesels. But they tend to
be a bit too upmarket for serious off-roading until they have collected
some dings and scratches with age. I've no idea about the other model
numbers you list, I don't know what they are.

Monterey/Trooper - Seem to be decent vehicles, I'd take the Isuzu over
the Opel because they seem to be slightly better built.

Suzuki - better than you might think off-road but probably need a lift
kit for ground clearance and they then need very careful handling
on-road.

Pajero / Shogun my sister in law has one. It's been a good vehicle and
has held together for many years. It's decent off road, a bit rough on
road but acceptable.

=====

Some things you haven't thought of:

Daihatsu Fourtrak - ideal farm vehicles. Not refined on-road but
relatively cheap and about the size that you ask for. Getting hard to
find in good condition, most people who have one don't want to lose it.

Nissan Terrano / Ford Maverick - decent size, can be driven on and
off-road relatively well. I've driven one at speed across Salisbury
Plain (off-road) and it didn't fall apart.

Daewoo / Ssang Yong Korando - Cheap, available with a diesel, fairly
slow. Reasonably competent off-road. You could get one for about GBP
2000 in very good condition.

Isuzu / Opel - Frontera/Mu/Bravo there seem to be many names for the
same vehicle. Some British assembled version were dreadful, but Opel and
Isuzu versions seem to be properly assembled even if they were made in
the same factory! I've little experience of these vehicles but friends
who own/use them seem very happy. Early owner complaints seem to be
because the owners thought they were buying a Freelander and were
actually buying a fairly rugged commercial/off-road vehicle.

UMM Alter - Good alternative to a Defender.

Santana - must be available down your part of the world. A Spanish built
alternative to Land Rover with sensible engines.


I'm sure I've forgotten many.
  #3  
Old March 8th 09, 11:59 PM posted to rec.autos.4x4,uk.rec.cars.4x4
José Rui Faustino de Sousa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Request for buying advice.

Hi!

"Steve Firth" > wrote in message
...
> José Rui Faustino de Sousa > wrote:
> If you want to seat five in comfort
>


Resonable confort. I mostly do not want longitudinal benches, anything
else will probably be good enough.

> than SWB vehicles are all going to
> be a compromise in either ability to carry luggage or legroom.
>


Yes I understand that.

> On longer
> trips there's usually a requirement to take at least one bag for each
> passenger plus some extra supplies such as water / food.
>


Let me qualify longer... ;-)

Probably less tan 1000km.

> Land Cruisers - Excellent, especially the 4.2 diesels.
>


Yes those are the heavy-duty ones. If they were available here I would
not be asking what to buy. ;-)

> Pajero / Shogun my sister in law has one. It's been a good vehicle and
> has held together for many years. It's decent off road, a bit rough on
> road but acceptable.
>


I was under the impression that it was more of a road vehicle than the
others.

> Daihatsu Fourtrak
>


Daihatsu Rocky or Bertone Freeclimber here. I did not knew about these.

> Nissan Terrano / Ford Maverick
>


I find them terribly ugly. And probably would prefer a Patrol GR.

> Daewoo / Ssang Yong Korando
>


I had the impression that it had bad attack angles with that long snout.
I will look again.

> Isuzu / Opel - Frontera/Mu/Bravo
>


I was under the impression that the Monterey/Trooper would be a better
option.

> UMM Alter - Good alternative to a Defender.
>


That is my car! I have a UMM Trofeu, the Alter II competition model. I
love it!

But 20 years is bit too much it is time to retire.

The family grew in the mean time and I am looking for some extra
confort.

> Santana - must be available down your part of the world. A Spanish
> built
> alternative to Land Rover with sensible engines.
>


Rare here. About the same as a Series III. Too old a design I think.

Thank you very much.

Best regards,
José Rui



  #4  
Old March 9th 09, 09:16 AM posted to rec.autos.4x4,uk.rec.cars.4x4
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Request for buying advice.

"José Rui Faustino de Sousa" > wrote in
:

> A Mitsubishi Pajero (Montero, Shogun) does not look like the best off
> roader but, well, looks can be deceiving.


Buy one with a locking or limited-slip rear diff and they'll go places
some Land Rovers won't. Go for the 2.8 TD or either of the V6 Mk 2s if
price is a factor. That said, the 3.2 DiD and other newer shaped ones
are starting to come within your range.

FWIW, Diesel Bob rates the 4M40 engine in the 2.8 Pajero highly. That
said, there are a couple of "class defects" you need to be aware of:
1. The crank drive-belt pulley often fails at just over
the 100,000 km mark.
2. The front oil seal of the fuel injector pump often fails
at between 80,000 to 100,000 miles (100,000 to 160,000 km).

New crank drive-belt pulleys can be bought off eBay for about 70 GB
pounds and any competent mechanic can fit. The front oil seal is a bit
more costly and not really a DIY job since the pump should be
recalibrated after the repair. Diesel specialists where I live wanted
between 300 and 600 GB pounds to do the job.

My 1995 2.8 LWB has suffered both class defects but otherwise hasn't
missed a beat in over four years and 100,000 km of ownership.

WRT space inside. If you want to carry one average sized grip for each
of five passengers, you'll need to carry at least some of them on the
roof or on the passengers' laps since there's very little space behind
the rear seats of a SWB Pajero. However, the wheelbase of a LWB isn't
massively more than that of the SWB. The extra length of a LWB comes
mainly from a longer rear overhang (and hence it has a shallower
departure angle). But then the LWB can accommodate 7 passengers or 5
plus loads of luggage.

HTH,

Geoff
 




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