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New PC's FFB



 
 
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  #31  
Old May 12th 12, 10:26 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Tony R
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Posts: 207
Default New PC's FFB

On 10/05/2012 18:11, FolkGT wrote:
> Speaking of pCARS, have you considered giving it a try?


Cruel. When Mario opens up the console and can see all the FFB
parameters he can adjust, his head will literally explode!

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  #32  
Old May 12th 12, 03:20 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
FolkGT
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Posts: 36
Default New PC's FFB

On Fri, 11 May 2012 23:28:11 -0400, GaryR > wrote:

>You two and this FF discussion are the death knell of this (should
>have been put to slep years ago) group.


Then why don't you do something to contribute, rather than lashing out? Or
is being an asshole just easier for you?
  #33  
Old May 12th 12, 06:21 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
jwilson54[_2_]
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Posts: 8
Default New PC's FFB

On 5/12/2012 10:20 AM, FolkGT wrote:
> On Fri, 11 May 2012 23:28:11 -0400, > wrote:
>
>> You two and this FF discussion are the death knell of this (should
>> have been put to slep years ago) group.

>
> Then why don't you do something to contribute, rather than lashing out? Or
> is being an asshole just easier for you?

The only good I got out of this FFB discussion is that it kept the news
group alive.I would guess that the majority of simmers really don't care
about all Mario's research,they will just use settings that feel right
to them.At least when I ran FFB thats what I did.

  #34  
Old May 12th 12, 08:49 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default New PC's FFB

Mario Petrinovic:
Mario Petrinovic:
BTW, fimaly I figured out about Centering Spring. It should be at
the same value as Overall. I didn't find it before because they both have to
be at the precise value, otherwise there is no benefit of them being the
same. Thankfully, my last Overall was at close value, so I tested around it.
My last Overall was 109% (the settings were 109/100/100/100), and the value
where they both have to be is 108% (so, "the right" settings are
108/100/100/108). With these new settings I was the first in fixed setup
sessions that I drove today, and even did my personal best without much
trouble. I aldo tried some non-default (non-100%) Spring and Damper
settings, but these were not good. I tried to lower in-game (by the same
percentage moving both, force and damper), and this is good only if you
lower (from maximum) it by little.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, this was wrong. It looks like the old formula is still working.
The formula is:
Overall x Spring/Damper = Centering Spring.
This means that with 108/100/100/108 I couldn't lower Spring/Damper
because 1.08 (CS) / 1.08 (O) = 1.00 (S/D).
But, I found out that 108/100/100/108 works well because Overall
should be 108 on my system, but Centering Spring is best to be kept at 100.
So, now I am using 108/93/93/100, because 1.00 (CS) / 1.08 (O) = 0.93 (S/D).
Also, FOV was wrong (again, so easy to measure it, yet it is always
wrong, lol), and now I say that the distance from eyes to the edge of table
is 35 cm.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, this was also wrong.
It looks like FFB now on my system works like it should.
First of all, you balance FFB by the way of Centering Spring.
Then, you adjust Damper/Spring and Overall to your liking, and then
you rebalance FFB with Centering Spring. Easy, and it works like it should.
Future days I will see if Damper and Spring have to be at the same
value. Also, I'll see if you can balance wrong FOV with Centering Spring.
BTW, it is advisable to first put Damper/Spring somewhere where you
like, because it is hard to set Centering Spring if Damper/Spring are too
high (100% is too high on my system, 97% works alright).

  #35  
Old May 12th 12, 09:13 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default New PC's FFB

Tony R:
FolkGT:
> Speaking of pCARS, have you considered giving it a try?


Cruel. When Mario opens up the console and can see all the FFB
parameters he can adjust, his head will literally explode!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not quite.
If you notice, I am not adjusting in-game settings at all. I am not
interested in that too much. I am trying to balance forces, FFB forces in
iRacing were unbalanced. Deliberately. iRacing deliberately unbalanced FFB
forces. For me, this is a sign of insanity. Secondly. you simply don't do
such foolishness if you plan to do a serious business. If you plan a to sell
a voodoo, yes, but not if you plan a serious business.
Firstly, iRacing locked damper to 75%. You simply don't do that. Why
would you do such a foolish thing in the first place. To mess things up? And
then you are expecting from people to do delicate adjustements on their
cars? Jesus Christ.
iRacing corrected this, but then they've put cockpitLookDeadZone
value off balance. Well, if you did this, at least you should leave some
info. For every inbalance you should leave an info, if you are a serious
player. If you are playing a child games, then you must allow children below
13 to play your game, otherwise you will have no target audience.
I am not interested in "rumble strips" FFB fireworks. I don't care
about this, this kind of FFB isn't important for racing, but every child
would be amazed with it. I am interested in representing cornering forces,
weight-shift forces, forces that are important for racing. And you don't
have this without Spring and Damper, simple as that.
Another thing, nobody solved even the basic things about FFB. How
you calibrate, for example. You have to work every axle BEFORE you are
calibrating it. Then, you have to put center of wheel at 8191, and the right
has to 900 (if you have set it to 900 in the Logitech driver). Nothing of
this is presented even as a hint. I am not sure if iRacing is even aware of
those problems. I've read in iRacing's documentation something like "you
have to calibrate SLOWLY". Lol, they have obviously encauntered that
problem, but didn't solwed it properly. No, you have work axes before
calibration, slowly calibrating will not help you. And what about 900 deg
right? Well, since their simulation is off balance anyway, they probably
didn't even notice that.
And on, and on. Which all tells you that they are starting from
completly wrong assumptions, completlz wrong basics. Which ends up in always
the same people using their software, and nobody else, because everybody
else didn't spend 5000 hours driving GPL around Monza, and onlz those who
did can use their software which is based on those wrong assumptions.

  #36  
Old May 14th 12, 06:02 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
FolkGT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default New PC's FFB

On Sat, 12 May 2012 13:21:29 -0400, jwilson54 >
wrote:

>On 5/12/2012 10:20 AM, FolkGT wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 May 2012 23:28:11 -0400, > wrote:
>>
>>> You two and this FF discussion are the death knell of this (should
>>> have been put to slep years ago) group.

>>
>> Then why don't you do something to contribute, rather than lashing out? Or
>> is being an asshole just easier for you?

>The only good I got out of this FFB discussion is that it kept the news
>group alive.I would guess that the majority of simmers really don't care
>about all Mario's research,they will just use settings that feel right
>to them.At least when I ran FFB thats what I did.


One would think that with all the activity going on in the sim world...
Assetto Corsa, rFactor 2, pCARS, Test Drive Ferrari, there would be more
activity in here. I guess Usenet just isn't the forum it used to be.
  #37  
Old May 14th 12, 06:12 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default New PC's FFB

Mario Petrinovic:
Mario Petrinovic:
Mario Petrinovic:
BTW, fimaly I figured out about Centering Spring. It should be at
the same value as Overall. I didn't find it before because they both have to
be at the precise value, otherwise there is no benefit of them being the
same. Thankfully, my last Overall was at close value, so I tested around it.
My last Overall was 109% (the settings were 109/100/100/100), and the value
where they both have to be is 108% (so, "the right" settings are
108/100/100/108). With these new settings I was the first in fixed setup
sessions that I drove today, and even did my personal best without much
trouble. I aldo tried some non-default (non-100%) Spring and Damper
settings, but these were not good. I tried to lower in-game (by the same
percentage moving both, force and damper), and this is good only if you
lower (from maximum) it by little.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, this was wrong. It looks like the old formula is still working.
The formula is:
Overall x Spring/Damper = Centering Spring.
This means that with 108/100/100/108 I couldn't lower Spring/Damper
because 1.08 (CS) / 1.08 (O) = 1.00 (S/D).
But, I found out that 108/100/100/108 works well because Overall
should be 108 on my system, but Centering Spring is best to be kept at 100.
So, now I am using 108/93/93/100, because 1.00 (CS) / 1.08 (O) = 0.93 (S/D).
Also, FOV was wrong (again, so easy to measure it, yet it is always
wrong, lol), and now I say that the distance from eyes to the edge of table
is 35 cm.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, this was also wrong.
It looks like FFB now on my system works like it should.
First of all, you balance FFB by the way of Centering Spring.
Then, you adjust Damper/Spring and Overall to your liking, and then
you rebalance FFB with Centering Spring. Easy, and it works like it should.
Future days I will see if Damper and Spring have to be at the same
value. Also, I'll see if you can balance wrong FOV with Centering Spring.
BTW, it is advisable to first put Damper/Spring somewhere where you
like, because it is hard to set Centering Spring if Damper/Spring are too
high (100% is too high on my system, 97% works alright).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, forget Centering Spring, this should be at 100%. I am still
testing Damper/Spring position. 100% is too high, 93% is too low, so its
somewhere in-between, : ). 94% looks good, but I still didn't test 95-99%.

  #38  
Old May 15th 12, 10:50 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default New PC's FFB

Mario Petrinovic:
Mario Petrinovic:
Mario Petrinovic:
Mario Petrinovic:
BTW, fimaly I figured out about Centering Spring. It should be at
the same value as Overall. I didn't find it before because they both have to
be at the precise value, otherwise there is no benefit of them being the
same. Thankfully, my last Overall was at close value, so I tested around it.
My last Overall was 109% (the settings were 109/100/100/100), and the value
where they both have to be is 108% (so, "the right" settings are
108/100/100/108). With these new settings I was the first in fixed setup
sessions that I drove today, and even did my personal best without much
trouble. I aldo tried some non-default (non-100%) Spring and Damper
settings, but these were not good. I tried to lower in-game (by the same
percentage moving both, force and damper), and this is good only if you
lower (from maximum) it by little.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, this was wrong. It looks like the old formula is still working.
The formula is:
Overall x Spring/Damper = Centering Spring.
This means that with 108/100/100/108 I couldn't lower Spring/Damper
because 1.08 (CS) / 1.08 (O) = 1.00 (S/D).
But, I found out that 108/100/100/108 works well because Overall
should be 108 on my system, but Centering Spring is best to be kept at 100.
So, now I am using 108/93/93/100, because 1.00 (CS) / 1.08 (O) = 0.93 (S/D).
Also, FOV was wrong (again, so easy to measure it, yet it is always
wrong, lol), and now I say that the distance from eyes to the edge of table
is 35 cm.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, this was also wrong.
It looks like FFB now on my system works like it should.
First of all, you balance FFB by the way of Centering Spring.
Then, you adjust Damper/Spring and Overall to your liking, and then
you rebalance FFB with Centering Spring. Easy, and it works like it should.
Future days I will see if Damper and Spring have to be at the same
value. Also, I'll see if you can balance wrong FOV with Centering Spring.
BTW, it is advisable to first put Damper/Spring somewhere where you
like, because it is hard to set Centering Spring if Damper/Spring are too
high (100% is too high on my system, 97% works alright).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, forget Centering Spring, this should be at 100%. I am still
testing Damper/Spring position. 100% is too high, 93% is too low, so its
somewhere in-between, : ). 94% looks good, but I still didn't test 95-99%.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, it is the other way around, forget Damper/Springs (they should
be at 100%), and get rid of slack by the way of Centering Spring. At 139% of
Centering Spring I got rid of slack.
Interestingly, the 139 number I liked in the past, on my old
computer, and at that time I probably didn't have natural FOV. So, it looks
like it isn't system specific, but rather wheel (I still use that old
wheel), or possibly human specific.
So, today I am using 118/100/100/139.

  #39  
Old May 16th 12, 01:24 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
GaryR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 90
Default New PC's FFB

Contribute to what??? This incessant circle jerk babble about nothing
anyone gives a **** about? As far as being an asshole, it does come
easy sometimes but in this case i'm simply voiceing my opinion on a
thread/post/newsgroup that is long dead and buried.

And go **** yourself, welcome to uselessnet.. wish you were here 25
years ago... then I would have had 25 years to tell you to **** off on
a weekly basis.

Have a wonderful day, and be sure to reset your FF 600,000 different
ways cause that is the same as driving a real race car!


>On Sat, 12 May 2012 10:20:06 -0400, FolkGT > wrote:
>On Fri, 11 May 2012 23:28:11 -0400, GaryR > wrote:
>
>>You two and this FF discussion are the death knell of this (should
>>have been put to slep years ago) group.

>
>Then why don't you do something to contribute, rather than lashing out? Or
>is being an asshole just easier for you?


  #40  
Old May 18th 12, 03:17 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
FolkGT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default New PC's FFB

On Tue, 15 May 2012 20:24:45 -0400, GaryR > wrote:

>Contribute to what??? This incessant circle jerk babble about nothing
>anyone gives a **** about? As far as being an asshole, it does come
>easy sometimes but in this case i'm simply voiceing my opinion on a
>thread/post/newsgroup that is long dead and buried.
>
>And go **** yourself, welcome to uselessnet.. wish you were here 25
>years ago... then I would have had 25 years to tell you to **** off on
>a weekly basis.
>
>Have a wonderful day, and be sure to reset your FF 600,000 different
>ways cause that is the same as driving a real race car!


I'm not the FFB guy, dip****. That's Mario. I'm the guy who's calling
you an asshole. And a retarded asshole at that. Keep the **** up.
 




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