2000 Saturn LW2 IAT Sensor location?

The manual in print is fairly comprehensive but VERY poorly indexed. Last
summer I got a P0495 (which is the same code as a loose gas cap). Turned out
to be the charcoal canister vent solenoid was sticking open. Took me two
days to find the valve, flipping pages in the manual. Finally found it by
looking in the electrical diagrams book where it gave location. The manual
on CD would be great but not at $400!
I wrote to Helm who prints the manuals for GM and asked if they would
consider a cross reference on paper or better yet on CD. Got back a terse
response that they had forwarded my message to Saturn. Not likely that
anything will happen but them sending a message to Saturn possibly carries a
bit more weight than if I go direct.

Then there is Brit-bashing... I remember a thread some years back about
the awful reliability of Lucas electrical systems. The response went
something like -
Q: Why to the Brits drink warm beer?
A: Because Lucas makes refrigerators.
Don't get me wrong, I like Monty Python, Junkyard wars and many of the Brit
offerings. <G>


"news" > wrote in message
...
>> Thanks for the info. I really should get the manual for this f......
>> thing.
> At first I just really disliked looking under the hood of this thing. But
> now, I comprehend the true horror of what it is I bought back in 2000. As
> you have pointed out, being an ENGLISH design, I now understand why it is
> so completely whack.

Makes you wonder...why the hell is a solenoid required on the canister in
the first place. Older cars that have these charcoal filters dont have
solenoids running to them. Under what conditions would you ever want to
CLOSE vent lines that are running to/from the charcoal canister.

More English stupidity?

These cars have so many new electrical points of failure (relays and
solenoids) compared to older cars, you gotta wonder if the manufacturers are
just trying to give dealers more service business...


"Oppie" > wrote in message
news:1125008831.2ba7ebf9137e5bfb03b82239de2cf7f2@t eranews...
> The manual in print is fairly comprehensive but VERY poorly indexed. Last
> summer I got a P0495 (which is the same code as a loose gas cap). Turned
> out to be the charcoal canister vent solenoid was sticking open. Took me
> two days to find the valve, flipping pages in the manual. Finally found it
> by looking in the electrical diagrams book where it gave location. The
> manual on CD would be great but not at $400!
> I wrote to Helm who prints the manuals for GM and asked if they would
> consider a cross reference on paper or better yet on CD. Got back a terse
> response that they had forwarded my message to Saturn. Not likely that
> anything will happen but them sending a message to Saturn possibly carries
> a bit more weight than if I go direct.
>
> Then there is Brit-bashing... I remember a thread some years back about
> the awful reliability of Lucas electrical systems. The response went
> something like -
> Q: Why to the Brits drink warm beer?
> A: Because Lucas makes refrigerators.
> Don't get me wrong, I like Monty Python, Junkyard wars and many of the
> Brit offerings. <G>
>
>
> "news" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> Thanks for the info. I really should get the manual for this f......
>>> thing.
>> At first I just really disliked looking under the hood of this thing.
>> But now, I comprehend the true horror of what it is I bought back in
>> 2000. As you have pointed out, being an ENGLISH design, I now understand
>> why it is so completely whack.
>
>

It would be nice if every car produced was required to be sold with a
Service Manual in book format or CD-Rom format. Anyhow what "you" need
to do Oppie is go onto ebay and search for "GM eSI" disk. Dealerships
and shops buy the cd's from GM's cd dealer and when the next version of
cd's come out there old cd's are either given away or layed aside. And
unlike Alldata they arent leased and are usuable until they decompose.
There's no registration to them either.
Look for someone thats selling the original disk and buy them. They
will cost you way less than 1 set of service manuals but they will cover
every model by GM from 1998 to the date of the set you get. You will
need "windows 2000 pro" or "XP pro" to install them. I got a few older
sets here that I need rid of. I'm keeping my latest version though.

In article <1125008831.2ba7ebf9137e5bfb03b82239de2cf7f2@teran ews>,
says...
> The manual in print is fairly comprehensive but VERY poorly indexed. Last
> summer I got a P0495 (which is the same code as a loose gas cap). Turned out
> to be the charcoal canister vent solenoid was sticking open. Took me two
> days to find the valve, flipping pages in the manual. Finally found it by
> looking in the electrical diagrams book where it gave location. The manual
> on CD would be great but not at $400!
> I wrote to Helm who prints the manuals for GM and asked if they would
> consider a cross reference on paper or better yet on CD. Got back a terse
> response that they had forwarded my message to Saturn. Not likely that
> anything will happen but them sending a message to Saturn possibly carries a
> bit more weight than if I go direct.
>
> Then there is Brit-bashing... I remember a thread some years back about
> the awful reliability of Lucas electrical systems. The response went
> something like -
> Q: Why to the Brits drink warm beer?
> A: Because Lucas makes refrigerators.
> Don't get me wrong, I like Monty Python, Junkyard wars and many of the Brit
> offerings. <G>
>
>
> "news" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Thanks for the info. I really should get the manual for this f......
> >> thing.
> > At first I just really disliked looking under the hood of this thing. But
> > now, I comprehend the true horror of what it is I bought back in 2000. As
> > you have pointed out, being an ENGLISH design, I now understand why it is
> > so completely whack.
>
>
>

In article >,
says...
> Makes you wonder...why the hell is a solenoid required on the canister in
> the first place. Older cars that have these charcoal filters dont have
> solenoids running to them. Under what conditions would you ever want to
> CLOSE vent lines that are running to/from the charcoal canister.
>
> More English stupidity?

No. Three letters....EPA

> These cars have so many new electrical points of failure (relays and
> solenoids) compared to older cars, you gotta wonder if the manufacturers are
> just trying to give dealers more service business...

Most of this stuff does make cars run cleaner and more efficiently. How
its all implemented is the key. If the engine compartment looks like a
cluster f*@% take it as a hint not to buy it. That pretty much covers
everything outside of the GM family and half of GM's fleet.

Or, you can go he
http://torrent.searching.com/get_tor...html?q=alldata
and get the entire alldata GM collection- all 12 GB of it. Youll need the
Alldata app as well, which is a separate d/l I believe.

Better have a fast connection...

Cheers


"blah blah" > wrote in message
...
> It would be nice if every car produced was required to be sold with a
> Service Manual in book format or CD-Rom format. Anyhow what "you" need
> to do Oppie is go onto ebay and search for "GM eSI" disk. Dealerships
> and shops buy the cd's from GM's cd dealer and when the next version of
> cd's come out there old cd's are either given away or layed aside. And
> unlike Alldata they arent leased and are usuable until they decompose.
> There's no registration to them either.
> Look for someone thats selling the original disk and buy them. They
> will cost you way less than 1 set of service manuals but they will cover
> every model by GM from 1998 to the date of the set you get. You will
> need "windows 2000 pro" or "XP pro" to install them. I got a few older
> sets here that I need rid of. I'm keeping my latest version though.
>
> In article <1125008831.2ba7ebf9137e5bfb03b82239de2cf7f2@teran ews>,
> says...
>> The manual in print is fairly comprehensive but VERY poorly indexed. Last
>> summer I got a P0495 (which is the same code as a loose gas cap). Turned
>> out
>> to be the charcoal canister vent solenoid was sticking open. Took me two
>> days to find the valve, flipping pages in the manual. Finally found it by
>> looking in the electrical diagrams book where it gave location. The
>> manual
>> on CD would be great but not at $400!
>> I wrote to Helm who prints the manuals for GM and asked if they would
>> consider a cross reference on paper or better yet on CD. Got back a terse
>> response that they had forwarded my message to Saturn. Not likely that
>> anything will happen but them sending a message to Saturn possibly
>> carries a
>> bit more weight than if I go direct.
>>
>> Then there is Brit-bashing... I remember a thread some years back about
>> the awful reliability of Lucas electrical systems. The response went
>> something like -
>> Q: Why to the Brits drink warm beer?
>> A: Because Lucas makes refrigerators.
>> Don't get me wrong, I like Monty Python, Junkyard wars and many of the
>> Brit
>> offerings. <G>
>>
>>
>> "news" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> Thanks for the info. I really should get the manual for this f......
>> >> thing.
>> > At first I just really disliked looking under the hood of this thing.
>> > But
>> > now, I comprehend the true horror of what it is I bought back in 2000.
>> > As
>> > you have pointed out, being an ENGLISH design, I now understand why it
>> > is
>> > so completely whack.
>>
>>
>>

There is a canister integrity diagnostic that closes the vent, opens the
purge solenoid and monitors a vacuum sensor attached to the canister. First
it looks for a vacuum then closed the purge solenoid and looks for the rate
of vacuum decay. This determines if there are any leaks and the magnitude of
them. (sounds like sensormania driven by EPA)

The wiring is supposed to get better in the future. More and more control is
done by CAN bus and other busses where the individual point to point wiring
is replaced by addressable nodes. Only the one or two communication lines
(depending on the communication bus/protocol) and power/ground are needed to
each device. Of course, the down side of that is that since every node has a
unique address, swapping left and right side window controls, for example,
wouldn't work.

"news" > wrote in message
.. .
> Makes you wonder...why the hell is a solenoid required on the canister in
> the first place. Older cars that have these charcoal filters dont have
> solenoids running to them. Under what conditions would you ever want to
> CLOSE vent lines that are running to/from the charcoal canister.
>
> More English stupidity?
>
> These cars have so many new electrical points of failure (relays and
> solenoids) compared to older cars, you gotta wonder if the manufacturers
> are just trying to give dealers more service business...
>
>

You will
> need "windows 2000 pro" or "XP pro" to install them.


Why? won't work on XP home edition or Win98 (that's my environment)

In article <1125060164.5862a1cac3379c138ce6bd64a961d14c@teran ews>,
says...
> You will
> > need "windows 2000 pro" or "XP pro" to install them.
>
>
> Why? won't work on XP home edition or Win98 (that's my environment)

Because it has to be NT based and the none Pro versions dont have the
architecture to run them. (Win2kpro will be my environment for a long
long time.)