Coolant Flush

Trying to do my own coolant flush...key word 'trying'

Need some advice on the steps needed. I can drain the radiator fine,
no issues here. (95 Mustang GT\59k) Amazingly I can find great
how-to articles on engine swaps but it is hard to find a coolant flush
for dummies article I've read the 5.0L are famous for corrosion in
the cooling system so I just want to make sure my pony is taken care
of. Last time I changed the coolant was over two years ago and I only
drained\refilled the radiator. Coolant still looks nice and green..

1. How do a drain the reservoir? I 'thought' that if I only filled
the radiator up part way, the pressure would suck the coolant from the
reservoir into the radiator. The temp got to the 'L' on Normal and no
action...didnt want to risk overheating so there went that idea.
AMazing that 'coolant' light did not come on even thought it was
obviously low (it has in past when it was low). Perhaps this is not
the way its supposed to work. Maybe theres a way to bleed w\o
removing the tank? If not how do I remove the tank?

2. Additives\Cleaners: Any recommended over the other? Necessary?

3. I've read to drain the block...where are the plugs?

4. I read inconsistent information on filling coolant. Should I do
it from the reservoir or the radiator? Will the reservoir over flow
into radiator?

5. I read references to the 'vent plug' for burping or bleeding the
air, where can I find this? I imagine its not the same as the drain
plug...

6. Im in Michigan, but the pony is only driven the warm 6 months we
have. Should I still stick with the 50\50 rule or go with a little
more water?

Thanks in advance for any help.



PS my recent additions this month (its getting there!):

Rebuilt AODE Transmission w\ Bauman Shift Kit (Alt.Auto)
4:10 Gears (Alt.Auto)
MAC Shorty Headers (Alt.Auto)
MAC Underdrive Pulleys (Alt.Auto)
Professional Custom Chip (Alt.Auto)
Professional Tune-Up (Alt.Auto)

"Echoadmin" > wrote in message
om...
> Trying to do my own coolant flush...key word 'trying'

I'm not the authority by any means, but I draw my answers from my limited
personal experience.

> Need some advice on the steps needed. I can drain the radiator fine,
> no issues here. (95 Mustang GT\59k) Amazingly I can find great
> how-to articles on engine swaps but it is hard to find a coolant flush
> for dummies article I've read the 5.0L are famous for corrosion in
> the cooling system so I just want to make sure my pony is taken care
> of. Last time I changed the coolant was over two years ago and I only
> drained\refilled the radiator. Coolant still looks nice and green..
>
> 1. How do a drain the reservoir? I 'thought' that if I only filled
> the radiator up part way, the pressure would suck the coolant from the
> reservoir into the radiator. The temp got to the 'L' on Normal and no
> action...didnt want to risk overheating so there went that idea.
> AMazing that 'coolant' light did not come on even thought it was
> obviously low (it has in past when it was low). Perhaps this is not
> the way its supposed to work. Maybe theres a way to bleed w\o
> removing the tank? If not how do I remove the tank?

You could siphon the reservoir, or you can take it off and drain it. On the
earlier cars, it was a bolt on the top and it pulled out of the top. I'm
not sure about the '94-95 cars.

> 2. Additives\Cleaners: Any recommended over the other? Necessary?

Don't know about this, sorry.

> 3. I've read to drain the block...where are the plugs?

There is a block drain on the side of the block somewhere, but I've never
used it. May be one in each side. I'm not sure how often it's necessary to
drain the block... maybe a good couple of flush-fill with water cycles would
work.

> 4. I read inconsistent information on filling coolant. Should I do
> it from the reservoir or the radiator? Will the reservoir over flow
> into radiator?

My experience has been (and prepare to make some mess - I never can do this
right)...

Open the radiator cap and fill to near the top. Start the engine and allow
it to warm up. When the thermostat opens, you will begin to fill the rest
of the system (upper radiator hose and top of the radiator). The level will
probably fluctuate here. Add until completely full to the top, and maybe
then some. Allow some running time for the system to burp, then put the cap
back on before the coolant gets too hot. I recommend a funnel designed
specifically for radiator use.

The theory here is that the coolant system should be as air-free as
possible. Steam pockets are your worst nightmare and can cause spot
overheating, extra cap pressures, etc. It is a closed system and works with
the overflow. The overflow *will not work* unless the system is free of
air. Pressure will not force extra coolant to the reservoir, just cause a
pressurized pocket somewhere, and the lack of pressure will also not cause a
draw if there is air in the system. You can not fill via the reservoir.

> 5. I read references to the 'vent plug' for burping or bleeding the
> air, where can I find this? I imagine its not the same as the drain
> plug...

I don't know if this exists on the '94-95 cars. I don't think there is one
on the pre-'94 cars. Basically, in lieu of what I wrote above, we realize
that in a normal state, air will rise to the top of the system. The vent
plug would be the highest point of the cooling system, and would allow you
to vent the air and even top off the system. This isn't really something
you can readily add to the best of my knowledge.

> 6. Im in Michigan, but the pony is only driven the warm 6 months we
> have. Should I still stick with the 50\50 rule or go with a little
> more water?

Make sure your mix will protect the car down to the coldest night you might
have. If not, the mix could freeze, causing anything from a cracked freeze
plug to a broken block and anywhere in between. I'd keep the 50/50 mix.

> Thanks in advance for any help.

Sure.... if it helped.

> Rebuilt AODE Transmission w\ Bauman Shift Kit (Alt.Auto)
> 4:10 Gears (Alt.Auto)
> MAC Shorty Headers (Alt.Auto)
> MAC Underdrive Pulleys (Alt.Auto)
> Professional Custom Chip (Alt.Auto)
> Professional Tune-Up (Alt.Auto)

Sounds like it should run pretty well... good luck!

JS

The cooling system cannot "suck" coolant from the overflow reservoir until
the system cools..... I think they taught that in about grade nine (being a
grade 8 dropout, I can't be sure). Snide remarks aside, the job isn't
finished until you see evidence that the thermostat has opened and coolant
is flowing through the rad. I'm forever amused by the 20 minute thermostat
changes.... professionally, I have to be sure that your cooling system is
purged and I need to get paid for that, too.... a.8 to 1.1 hour charge for a
thermostat change will include the purge process.

Flushing chemicals are caustic.... the act of using them can damge the
cooling system. If the cooling system has been neglected to the point of
calcification, 'rodding' the rad core is probably a better choice that
chemicals that will add insult to injury. The idea is to replace the coolant
before Ph or electrolysis has the chance to do damage.

Location of the block drains varies from motor to motor.... they are simply
pipe plugs inserted into the lower portion of the block .... below the
expansion plug line. If the plug wont come out, leave it alone unless you
are going to pull the motor anyway.

The 5.0 has no purge fittings.... other motors might. The 5.0 would have
benefitted from purge fittings.

There is no magic involved in auto repair... everything is a logical
progression of cause and effect - though there are those things that can tax
logical thought process. For the small amount of coolant in the reservoir, I
wouldn't get too concerned over it's effect on the outcome of my service
routine.

Heat transfer differs between straight water and mixed coolant...... glycol
absorbs heat more slowly than water. The car was designed so that the ECT
was calibrated for the absorbtion rate of a 50/50 mix. Where I live, 60/40
or even 70/30 can be a wiser choice (with high glycol concentrations,
gelling can be a concern). Additionally, good quality coolants offer
anti-corrosion additives that will slow down the degradation that will
happen no matter what we do.

There is so much more to coolant than being "nice and green".....


"Echoadmin" > wrote in message
om...
> Trying to do my own coolant flush...key word 'trying'
>
> Need some advice on the steps needed. I can drain the radiator fine,
> no issues here. (95 Mustang GT\59k) Amazingly I can find great
> how-to articles on engine swaps but it is hard to find a coolant flush
> for dummies article I've read the 5.0L are famous for corrosion in
> the cooling system so I just want to make sure my pony is taken care
> of. Last time I changed the coolant was over two years ago and I only
> drained\refilled the radiator. Coolant still looks nice and green..
>
> 1. How do a drain the reservoir? I 'thought' that if I only filled
> the radiator up part way, the pressure would suck the coolant from the
> reservoir into the radiator. The temp got to the 'L' on Normal and no
> action...didnt want to risk overheating so there went that idea.
> AMazing that 'coolant' light did not come on even thought it was
> obviously low (it has in past when it was low). Perhaps this is not
> the way its supposed to work. Maybe theres a way to bleed w\o
> removing the tank? If not how do I remove the tank?
>
> 2. Additives\Cleaners: Any recommended over the other? Necessary?
>
> 3. I've read to drain the block...where are the plugs?
>
> 4. I read inconsistent information on filling coolant. Should I do
> it from the reservoir or the radiator? Will the reservoir over flow
> into radiator?
>
> 5. I read references to the 'vent plug' for burping or bleeding the
> air, where can I find this? I imagine its not the same as the drain
> plug...
>
> 6. Im in Michigan, but the pony is only driven the warm 6 months we
> have. Should I still stick with the 50\50 rule or go with a little
> more water?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
>
>
> PS my recent additions this month (its getting there!):
>
> Rebuilt AODE Transmission w\ Bauman Shift Kit (Alt.Auto)
> 4:10 Gears (Alt.Auto)
> MAC Shorty Headers (Alt.Auto)
> MAC Underdrive Pulleys (Alt.Auto)
> Professional Custom Chip (Alt.Auto)
> Professional Tune-Up (Alt.Auto)

I've never given the purging of air much thought. I have always assumed that
the air would be bleed off into the coolant overflow reservoir ( or in the
old days to the ground) as the water temp and pressure rose. Isn't the top
of the radiator the "high" point in the system? I'm going to guess that you
are suggesting that there may be areas within the system that might allow an
air pocket to be "trapped" but if this is the case then it's not obvious to
me how it can be purged. After all the system is under pressure when it's at
operating temperature so what is it that allows one to purge the system when
cold that's different when it's hot?
The water pump draws from the bottom of the radiator so water is always
available (assuming a nearly full to full levels) at the pump intake.

Just curious.
--
Richard

'94 GT 'vert
Under Drive Pulleys
Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
High Stall Torque Converter
4:10 Gears
Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
FRPP M5400-A Suspension
Laser Red

>
> * Purging air is more important than "flushing"
>
> * air collects up, so a "flush (Tee) connector" instead in the heater line
a
> foot or so from the intake end might help a lot
>

Just finished this rather prolonged process myself. In my case I started
with 12 gallons of distilled water. I drained the radiator and refilled
with the distilled water, drove the car to work and repeated the process
until the water ran clear. Took about ten days total.


"Echoadmin" > wrote in message
om...
> Trying to do my own coolant flush...key word 'trying'
>
> Need some advice on the steps needed. I can drain the radiator fine,
> no issues here. (95 Mustang GT\59k) Amazingly I can find great
> how-to articles on engine swaps but it is hard to find a coolant flush
> for dummies article I've read the 5.0L are famous for corrosion in
> the cooling system so I just want to make sure my pony is taken care
> of. Last time I changed the coolant was over two years ago and I only
> drained\refilled the radiator. Coolant still looks nice and green..
>
> 1. How do a drain the reservoir? I 'thought' that if I only filled
> the radiator up part way, the pressure would suck the coolant from the
> reservoir into the radiator. The temp got to the 'L' on Normal and no
> action...didnt want to risk overheating so there went that idea.
> AMazing that 'coolant' light did not come on even thought it was
> obviously low (it has in past when it was low). Perhaps this is not
> the way its supposed to work. Maybe theres a way to bleed w\o
> removing the tank? If not how do I remove the tank?
>
> 2. Additives\Cleaners: Any recommended over the other? Necessary?
>
> 3. I've read to drain the block...where are the plugs?
>
> 4. I read inconsistent information on filling coolant. Should I do
> it from the reservoir or the radiator? Will the reservoir over flow
> into radiator?
>
> 5. I read references to the 'vent plug' for burping or bleeding the
> air, where can I find this? I imagine its not the same as the drain
> plug...
>
> 6. Im in Michigan, but the pony is only driven the warm 6 months we
> have. Should I still stick with the 50\50 rule or go with a little
> more water?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
>
>
> PS my recent additions this month (its getting there!):
>
> Rebuilt AODE Transmission w\ Bauman Shift Kit (Alt.Auto)
> 4:10 Gears (Alt.Auto)
> MAC Shorty Headers (Alt.Auto)
> MAC Underdrive Pulleys (Alt.Auto)
> Professional Custom Chip (Alt.Auto)
> Professional Tune-Up (Alt.Auto)

The top of your engine is lower than the top of your radiator?

Thats the MAIN thing that's different from the "old days"

I'd purge just as the thermostat opens.. But like I say, it has to be at a
point higher than the thermostat, without an "arch' in between

Richard opined in news:z8Xkd.196778$Pl.85973@pd7tw1no:

> I've never given the purging of air much thought. I have always assumed
> that the air would be bleed off into the coolant overflow reservoir ( or
> in the old days to the ground) as the water temp and pressure rose.
> Isn't the top of the radiator the "high" point in the system? I'm going
> to guess that you are suggesting that there may be areas within the
> system that might allow an air pocket to be "trapped" but if this is the
> case then it's not obvious to me how it can be purged. After all the
> system is under pressure when it's at operating temperature so what is
> it that allows one to purge the system when cold that's different when
> it's hot? The water pump draws from the bottom of the radiator so water
> is always available (assuming a nearly full to full levels) at the pump
> intake.
>
> Just curious.

Well, I had to go and check. The relative height of the radiator cap vs.
engine height on all three vehicles in my garage are higher than the engine
(excluding the intake manifold). However, on two of the three, the top of
the radiator was not but the bleed/overflow from the base of the cap is
higher. The cap BTW is not always on the radiator. The three vehicles a
'94 Mustang GT, '00 Durango 5.8L and '95 Intrepid.

I would believe that the bleed/overflow point is always higher so as to
ensure that any trapped air is expelled..

--
Richard

'94 GT 'vert
Under Drive Pulleys
Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
High Stall Torque Converter
4:10 Gears
Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
FRPP M5400-A Suspension
Laser Red

"Backyard Mechanic" > wrote in message
...
> The top of your engine is lower than the top of your radiator?
>
> Thats the MAIN thing that's different from the "old days"
>
> I'd purge just as the thermostat opens.. But like I say, it has to be at
a
> point higher than the thermostat, without an "arch' in between
>

Notwithstanding, there are many places that can form air domes that can be
difficult to purge. These can be exclusive of areas serviced by purge valves
or other openings.

In many modern body styles, the heater core has become the high point and is
usually bereft of any bleed fittings. This leaves us with our God-given
sense to tell us if the system is purged or not.... the thermostat needs to
be open (the hose from the thermostat housing to the rad is hot ... notice I
didn't say 'top' rad hose - reverse flow cooling systems are on the
market)..... the heater must be producing heat at idle...... this is why
that 15minute thermostat change costs nearly an hour....

Once a modern cooling system has been opened, it can be difficult to
re-establish flow through all areas of the system...... there's nothing
wrong with DIYers performing these types of service operations but it is
important that they don't stumble in blindly. There are all kinds of gotchas
lurking in our cars. Looking at the task logically and analytically will
help get us through these situations.


"Richard" > wrote in message
news:ijZkd.198614$Pl.99519@pd7tw1no...
> Well, I had to go and check. The relative height of the radiator cap vs.
> engine height on all three vehicles in my garage are higher than the
> engine
> (excluding the intake manifold). However, on two of the three, the top of
> the radiator was not but the bleed/overflow from the base of the cap is
> higher. The cap BTW is not always on the radiator. The three vehicles a
> '94 Mustang GT, '00 Durango 5.8L and '95 Intrepid.
>
> I would believe that the bleed/overflow point is always higher so as to
> ensure that any trapped air is expelled..
>
> --
> Richard
>
> '94 GT 'vert
> Under Drive Pulleys
> Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
> High Stall Torque Converter
> 4:10 Gears
> Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
> FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
> FRPP M5400-A Suspension
> Laser Red
>
> "Backyard Mechanic" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The top of your engine is lower than the top of your radiator?
>>
>> Thats the MAIN thing that's different from the "old days"
>>
>> I'd purge just as the thermostat opens.. But like I say, it has to be at
> a
>> point higher than the thermostat, without an "arch' in between
>>
>
>

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 06:05:09 GMT, "Jim Warman"
> wrote:

>Notwithstanding, there are many places that can form air domes that can be
>difficult to purge. These can be exclusive of areas serviced by purge valves
>or other openings.
>
>In many modern body styles, the heater core has become the high point and is
>usually bereft of any bleed fittings. This leaves us with our God-given
>sense to tell us if the system is purged or not.... the thermostat needs to
>be open (the hose from the thermostat housing to the rad is hot ... notice I
>didn't say 'top' rad hose - reverse flow cooling systems are on the
>market)..... the heater must be producing heat at idle...... this is why
>that 15minute thermostat change costs nearly an hour....
>
>Once a modern cooling system has been opened, it can be difficult to
>re-establish flow through all areas of the system...... there's nothing
>wrong with DIYers performing these types of service operations but it is
>important that they don't stumble in blindly. There are all kinds of gotchas
>lurking in our cars. Looking at the task logically and analytically will
>help get us through these situations.
>
>
>"Richard" > wrote in message
>news:ijZkd.198614$Pl.99519@pd7tw1no...
>> Well, I had to go and check. The relative height of the radiator cap vs.
>> engine height on all three vehicles in my garage are higher than the
>> engine
>> (excluding the intake manifold). However, on two of the three, the top of
>> the radiator was not but the bleed/overflow from the base of the cap is
>> higher. The cap BTW is not always on the radiator. The three vehicles a
>> '94 Mustang GT, '00 Durango 5.8L and '95 Intrepid.
>>
>> I would believe that the bleed/overflow point is always higher so as to
>> ensure that any trapped air is expelled..
>>
>> --
>> Richard
>>
>> '94 GT 'vert
>> Under Drive Pulleys
>> Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
>> High Stall Torque Converter
>> 4:10 Gears
>> Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
>> FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
>> FRPP M5400-A Suspension
>> Laser Red
>>
>> "Backyard Mechanic" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> The top of your engine is lower than the top of your radiator?
>>>
>>> Thats the MAIN thing that's different from the "old days"
>>>
>>> I'd purge just as the thermostat opens.. But like I say, it has to be at
>> a
>>> point higher than the thermostat, without an "arch' in between
>>>
>>
>>
>
In the 3.8 V6 there's plenty of places for air to hide.
Even with the purge valve on top of the intake, near the thermostat,
it can be a pain to get all the air out.
Today I completed my cooling repair but will continue to open bleed
valve and top-off radiator a couple more times over the next few
driving cycles. Even with using the bleed valve, and leting the
thermostat open and checking for good flow, air manages to be trapped
in upper hose or somewhere else. (also I have heater on) I ran a
couple weeks with clear water to make sure the radiator, top and
bottom hose and thermostat replacements had no leaks. Had to go
through this "purge" cycle then as well..
Make sure you have tight fit on hose going to your reserve tank as any
loseness in fit will allow it to suck air rather than coolant...
Chuck

On 10 Nov 2004 19:33:35 -0800, (Echoadmin) wrote:

>Trying to do my own coolant flush...key word 'trying'
>
>Need some advice on the steps needed. I can drain the radiator fine,
>no issues here. (95 Mustang GT\59k) Amazingly I can find great
>how-to articles on engine swaps but it is hard to find a coolant flush
>for dummies article I've read the 5.0L are famous for corrosion in
>the cooling system so I just want to make sure my pony is taken care
>of. Last time I changed the coolant was over two years ago and I only
>drained\refilled the radiator. Coolant still looks nice and green..
>
>1. How do a drain the reservoir? I 'thought' that if I only filled
>the radiator up part way, the pressure would suck the coolant from the
>reservoir into the radiator. The temp got to the 'L' on Normal and no
>action...didnt want to risk overheating so there went that idea.
>AMazing that 'coolant' light did not come on even thought it was
>obviously low (it has in past when it was low). Perhaps this is not
>the way its supposed to work. Maybe theres a way to bleed w\o
>removing the tank? If not how do I remove the tank?

Well, unless you take off the reservoir, or siphon it out, you can't
really drain it. What I did was I pulled the little hose off that goes
tot he radiator and just put the hose in the reservoir to flush. Leave
remaining water in there, it's not much compared to the remaining
water in the cooling system.


>
>2. Additives\Cleaners: Any recommended over the other? Necessary?

I've used prestone cleaner, it probably doesn't matter much. It's just
some acidic fluid that removes scaling. It's much more important to
flush the stuff out well after it's done it's job.

>
>3. I've read to drain the block...where are the plugs?

Don't bother. You can but its more hassle than worth it.
What I Did was I removed the lower radiator hose so a lot of water
could drain out the block.

>
>4. I read inconsistent information on filling coolant. Should I do
>it from the reservoir or the radiator? Will the reservoir over flow
>into radiator?

Radiator, and fill the reservoir to max or a little above since you'll
have some air come out for a while.

>
>5. I read references to the 'vent plug' for burping or bleeding the
>air, where can I find this? I imagine its not the same as the drain
>plug...

just squeeze the hoses a bit when filling/running it.
>
>6. Im in Michigan, but the pony is only driven the warm 6 months we
>have. Should I still stick with the 50\50 rule or go with a little
>more water?

Nope, do 50/50. It's also there to prevent corrosion.

I would replace the thermostat at the same time. cheap and can save
you tons in repairs if it fails. make sure you get the little gasket
with it and do not overtighten the bolts for the thermostat housing.
Before you flush, just take out the old thermostat, bolt the
thermostat housing back on without thermostat, then add the cleaner
and run the engine. This way you won't have to wait constantly for the
thermostat to open when you start flushing out with clean water to get
the cleaner out.
then once you are done flushing the system, get as much water out as
you can (radiator/lower rad-hose), bolt everything back in place
(incl new thermostat and lower rad. hose.
Then add half th capacity of your cooling system in coolant, fill the
remaining with distilled water.
Drive it for a while but keep checking the reservoir after every trip
for a couple weeks. There might still be air coming out, slowly taking
up all the coolant from your reservoir.


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