Consumer Reports and Saturn

I have a 1996 SL2 with 240k+ miles on it and just the normal wear & tear
problems. It has been the best new car I have had. I am now looking for an
SUV and the Consumer Reports negative view of the Saturn Vue concern me. Are
the Vue's from 2007 and newer worthy of the negative opinion?

My experience with the SL2 makes me want to stick with the Saturn but...

>I have a 1996 SL2 with 240k+ miles on it and just the normal wear & tear
>problems. It has been the best new car I have had. I am now looking for an
>SUV and the Consumer Reports negative view of the Saturn Vue concern me. Are
>the Vue's from 2007 and newer worthy of the negative opinion?
>My experience with the SL2 makes me want to stick with the Saturn but...


Sorry - I can't advise you on the Vue - for reliability & value.
I just know that the re-sale prices seem quite low.
This might be an indication to stay away ..
or it might be the best value in a used SUV.
The Vue that I saw recently - loaded & clean - was priced
the same as a base model Matrix, on the same lot.
.... they were both 05s . similar mileage.
The Matrix had crank windows ; the Vue had leather.
I dunno.
Good Luck.
John T.

The '07 and later Vues are pieced together with GM parts on GM assembly
lines with GM quality control. The only thing "Saturn" about them are the
plastic side panels. The only positive thing about the '07 V6 (which I have)
is the Honda engine and Honda 5-speed trans. That's also a negative since
Saturn/GM obviously didn't put much thought in how to handle the torque
profile of a Honda powertrain. GM also pushed up the price of the later
Vues, but they still suffer from the nosedive residuals of most generic GMs.

Another point is that the '07s were assembled in the downhill days of TN
while the newer VUEs are assembled in Mexico.

--smacks self on forehead--"I shoulda bought a CRV"
Steve

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
>I have a 1996 SL2 with 240k+ miles on it and just the normal wear & tear
>problems. It has been the best new car I have had. I am now looking for an
>SUV and the Consumer Reports negative view of the Saturn Vue concern me.
>Are the Vue's from 2007 and newer worthy of the negative opinion?
>
> My experience with the SL2 makes me want to stick with the Saturn but...
>
>
>

I also have a '96 SL with 175K on the clock and hopre to milk it for a
few more years.

Saturn has changed from those days........don't but anything
Consumer Reports doesn't recommend - you will be sorry down the road.

I owned a couple of Chrysler mini-vans that CR said were junk, and
they were. All the stuff they said breaks did. I than bought a
Toyota Sienna Van that was recommended and have not had a problem.

I will not buy a vehicle that CR does not rate "Above Average" in
reliability.

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:34:06 -0700, "Dan" >
wrote:

>I have a 1996 SL2 with 240k+ miles on it and just the normal wear & tear
>problems. It has been the best new car I have had. I am now looking for an
>SUV and the Consumer Reports negative view of the Saturn Vue concern me. Are
>the Vue's from 2007 and newer worthy of the negative opinion?
>
>My experience with the SL2 makes me want to stick with the Saturn but...
>
>

I used to read all the Consumer Reports crap. And every time I purchased
something they recommended I was very disappointed. Especially cars.
Their Japanese cars recommendations have always been a problem and one
of the reasons we stopped buying Japanese cars. I've never had problems
with American cars. I think it is how the cars are maintained. Because
people pay more for Japanese cars they tend to maintain them better.
They tend not to maintain American cars as much as Japanese cars, so
they blame American cars. JMHO.

Buzz wrote:
> I also have a '96 SL with 175K on the clock and hopre to milk it for a
> few more years.
>
> Saturn has changed from those days........don't but anything
> Consumer Reports doesn't recommend - you will be sorry down the road.
>
> I owned a couple of Chrysler mini-vans that CR said were junk, and
> they were. All the stuff they said breaks did. I than bought a
> Toyota Sienna Van that was recommended and have not had a problem.
>
> I will not buy a vehicle that CR does not rate "Above Average" in
> reliability.

Consumer Reports is biased against Saturn because they always hated polymer
panels and the fit and finish of the older Saturn models. Also, CS has never
done full reviews on Saturn models noting the changes especially power train
and safety changes year by year. In 2008 CS has finally started to write
positive reports of Saturns since they went to all steel panels.

I know I will get flamed by this, I always do but I stand firm on what I
know I read. I used to collect CS magazines and the Yearly Annual Report
would many times show the EXACT same verbiage of reviews from year to year,
even though models such as the VUE, ION and Relay had some major powertrain,
safety and feature changes. Having hands on the new Saturn models year after
year, actually sitting in the exact ION or VUE or Relay with an Annual CS
magi in my hand and noticing all the discrepancies was an eye opener for me.
When CS thinks the 2003 ION and 2005 ION do not deserve mention of major
powertrain changes that put up a red flag for me.

Add to that the CS always highly rates foreign cars and has in the past been
class-action sued over their false high safety ratings of the 1st gen Focus
and Cavalier models which resulted in deaths, I give absolutely no stock in
trusting CS other than reviewing toasters and refrigerators.

That said, the VUE is a good vehicle. But stay away from 2002-2004 models
which will have the CVT transmissions. In mid-2004 the VUE went to a Honda
powetrain, eliminating the CTV belt-drive engine which was problematic. The
engine is very well built and one of the best features of the V6 VUE other
than polymer of course. The 4cyl was given a Hydromatic tranny in late 2004,
ending the CVT failed run. The VUE kept the same Saturn 4cyl and Honda
engines until 2008 when Saturn changed production of the VUE based on the GM
Daewoo concept for Opel and Saturn which now share many components.

The 2008 VUE is built in the same Ramos Arizpe plant which manufactures some
Chevys and other GM crossovers.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_n26147289


While it is not a US factory (boo) it is considered one of the higher
standard quality plants GM has in the world. The new VUE now has a
Hydromatic transmission and is paired with a number of engines including a
new 4cylinder 145hp or a variant of the Cadillac CTS engine made exclusively
for Saturn at 257 hp.

If you are looking for a used VUE, anything after mid-2004 is ok. AVIOD CVT
transmissions at all costs! In 2007 the VUE gained 5 more hp on the 4cyl, in
2006 a new rounder body style.

Hope my rambling helps you.
marx404

_____________
"Dan" > wrote in message
...
>I have a 1996 SL2 with 240k+ miles on it and just the normal wear & tear
>problems. It has been the best new car I have had. I am now looking for an
>SUV and the Consumer Reports negative view of the Saturn Vue concern me.
>Are the Vue's from 2007 and newer worthy of the negative opinion?
>
> My experience with the SL2 makes me want to stick with the Saturn but...
>
>
>

On Feb 8, 8:33*pm, "marx404" > wrote:
> Consumer Reports is biased against Saturn because they always hated polymer
> panels and the fit and finish of the older Saturn models. Also, CS has never
> done full reviews on Saturn models noting the changes especially power train
> and safety changes year by year. In 2008 CS has finally started to write
> positive reports of Saturns since they went to all steel *panels.
>
> I know I will get flamed by this, I always do but I stand firm on what I
> know I read. I used to collect CS magazines and the Yearly Annual Report
> would many times show the EXACT same verbiage of reviews from year to year,
> even though models such as the VUE, ION and Relay had some major powertrain,
> safety and feature changes. Having hands on the new Saturn models year after
> year, actually sitting in the exact ION or VUE or Relay with an Annual CS
> magi in my hand and noticing all the discrepancies was an eye opener for me.
> When CS thinks the 2003 ION and 2005 ION do not deserve mention of major
> powertrain changes that put up a red flag for me.
>
> Add to that the CS always highly rates foreign cars and has in the past been
> class-action sued over their false high safety ratings of the 1st gen Focus
> and Cavalier models which resulted in deaths, I give absolutely no stock in
> trusting CS other than reviewing toasters and refrigerators.
>
> That said, the VUE is a good vehicle. But stay away from 2002-2004 models
> which will have the CVT transmissions. In mid-2004 the VUE went to a Honda
> powetrain, eliminating the CTV belt-drive engine which was problematic. The
> engine is very well built and one of the best features of the V6 VUE other
> than polymer of course. The 4cyl was given a Hydromatic tranny in late 2004,
> ending the CVT failed run. The VUE kept the same Saturn 4cyl and Honda
> engines until 2008 when Saturn changed production of the VUE based on the GM
> Daewoo concept for Opel and Saturn which now share many components.
>
> The 2008 VUE is built in the same Ramos Arizpe plant which manufactures some
> Chevys and other GM crossovers.http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_n26147289
>
> While it is not a US factory (boo) *it is considered one of the higher
> standard quality plants GM has in the world. The new VUE now has a
> Hydromatic transmission and is paired with a number of engines including a
> new 4cylinder 145hp or a variant of the Cadillac CTS engine made exclusively
> for Saturn at 257 hp.
>
> If you are looking for a used VUE, anything after mid-2004 is ok. AVIOD CVT
> transmissions at all costs! In 2007 the VUE gained 5 more hp on the 4cyl, in
> 2006 a new rounder body style.
>
> Hope my rambling helps you.
> marx404
>
> _____________"Dan" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> >I have a 1996 SL2 with 240k+ miles on it and just the normal wear & tear
> >problems. It has been the best new car I have had. I am now looking for an
> >SUV and the Consumer Reports negative view of the Saturn Vue concern me.
> >Are the Vue's from 2007 and newer worthy of the negative opinion?
>
> > My experience with the SL2 makes me want to stick with the Saturn but....- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I would talk to used car shop owners, If you know them personally,
they will tell you to stay away from the vue.. they are crap. I'd fine
a good shape saturn wagon or sl in the 1999 or 2000 year or buy a
pontiac. I do like the new aura but it will be a few years before
start showing up in the used market.

> wrote in message
...
On Feb 8, 8:33 pm, "marx404" > wrote:
> Consumer Reports is biased against Saturn because they always hated
> polymer
> panels and the fit and finish of the older Saturn models. Also, CS has
> never
> done full reviews on Saturn models noting the changes especially power
> train
> and safety changes year by year. In 2008 CS has finally started to write
> positive reports of Saturns since they went to all steel panels.
>
> I know I will get flamed by this, I always do but I stand firm on what I
> know I read. I used to collect CS magazines and the Yearly Annual Report
> would many times show the EXACT same verbiage of reviews from year to
> year,
> even though models such as the VUE, ION and Relay had some major
> powertrain,
> safety and feature changes. Having hands on the new Saturn models year
> after
> year, actually sitting in the exact ION or VUE or Relay with an Annual CS
> magi in my hand and noticing all the discrepancies was an eye opener for
> me.
> When CS thinks the 2003 ION and 2005 ION do not deserve mention of major
> powertrain changes that put up a red flag for me.
>
> Add to that the CS always highly rates foreign cars and has in the past
> been
> class-action sued over their false high safety ratings of the 1st gen
> Focus
> and Cavalier models which resulted in deaths, I give absolutely no stock
> in
> trusting CS other than reviewing toasters and refrigerators.
>
> That said, the VUE is a good vehicle. But stay away from 2002-2004 models
> which will have the CVT transmissions. In mid-2004 the VUE went to a Honda
> powetrain, eliminating the CTV belt-drive engine which was problematic.
> The
> engine is very well built and one of the best features of the V6 VUE other
> than polymer of course. The 4cyl was given a Hydromatic tranny in late
> 2004,
> ending the CVT failed run. The VUE kept the same Saturn 4cyl and Honda
> engines until 2008 when Saturn changed production of the VUE based on the
> GM
> Daewoo concept for Opel and Saturn which now share many components.
>
> The 2008 VUE is built in the same Ramos Arizpe plant which manufactures
> some
> Chevys and other GM
> crossovers.http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_n26147289
>
> While it is not a US factory (boo) it is considered one of the higher
> standard quality plants GM has in the world. The new VUE now has a
> Hydromatic transmission and is paired with a number of engines including a
> new 4cylinder 145hp or a variant of the Cadillac CTS engine made
> exclusively
> for Saturn at 257 hp.
>
> If you are looking for a used VUE, anything after mid-2004 is ok. AVIOD
> CVT
> transmissions at all costs! In 2007 the VUE gained 5 more hp on the 4cyl,
> in
> 2006 a new rounder body style.
>
> Hope my rambling helps you.
> marx404
>
> _____________"Dan" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> >I have a 1996 SL2 with 240k+ miles on it and just the normal wear & tear
> >problems. It has been the best new car I have had. I am now looking for
> >an
> >SUV and the Consumer Reports negative view of the Saturn Vue concern me.
> >Are the Vue's from 2007 and newer worthy of the negative opinion?
>
> > My experience with the SL2 makes me want to stick with the Saturn
> > but...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I would talk to used car shop owners, If you know them personally,
they will tell you to stay away from the vue.. they are crap. I'd fine
a good shape saturn wagon or sl in the 1999 or 2000 year or buy a
pontiac. I do like the new aura but it will be a few years before
start showing up in the used market.


It is often said that 'good marketing is having what buyers want, and
selling is trying to make business with what you have available.'

With respect, marx404 is currently in the sales business.

I agree that CR (and marx404) is somewhat biased and not always in agreement
with MHO.

IMHO an SW1 (w 5sp) is a great car and good examples are now available for
VERY reasonable prices. (and repairs are now very reasonable because of the
current availability of used parts.) I suspect that Marx404 does not have
good examples on his lot for long. I would love to be able to buy another
new one but am NOT interested in any of the current offerings and suspect
that the best years of the Saturn car experiment are in the past. I often
think about how good a 3rd generation S series could have been. IMHO I am
not the only customer who is looking for FUEL EFFICIENT and LOW COST
transportation and is not interested in the bloated high margin offerings
from the domestic manufacturers. I will just have to 'make do with what
I've got,' there are lots of cheap miles left in them.

Good luck and 'happy trails'.

I am actually not in sales but I have worked for Saturn, which would make me
knowledgeable about the cars (how is that relevant anyways? Im not ashamed
of it, so what?) , so with all due respect "Private" I know who you really
are and outing me still even on here does not discredit me. I thought you
got thrown off of SaturnFans for TROLLing people ? Only the name has changed
but your bad behavior hasn't, too bad there's so much hating. I feel bad for
you that you have to resort to such low blows.

Dan, the best thing that you can do is ask anyone who havs a VUE what they
think, you will get an honest answer. Stop someone at a supermarket or
WalMart, anywhere and ask them what they think of thier VUE and see what
they say.

Like I said,, please keep in mind that CVT years (2002-early 2004) to keep
away from, those are the troubled VUES that everyone refers to, but the
newer ones are a pretty safe bet.

--
marx404
<all gmail posts blocked>
_________________
"Private" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> On Feb 8, 8:33 pm, "marx404" > wrote:
>> Consumer Reports is biased against Saturn because they always hated
>> polymer
>> panels and the fit and finish of the older Saturn models. Also, CS has
>> never
>> done full reviews on Saturn models noting the changes especially power
>> train
>> and safety changes year by year. In 2008 CS has finally started to write
>> positive reports of Saturns since they went to all steel panels.
>>
>> I know I will get flamed by this, I always do but I stand firm on what I
>> know I read. I used to collect CS magazines and the Yearly Annual Report
>> would many times show the EXACT same verbiage of reviews from year to
>> year,
>> even though models such as the VUE, ION and Relay had some major
>> powertrain,
>> safety and feature changes. Having hands on the new Saturn models year
>> after
>> year, actually sitting in the exact ION or VUE or Relay with an Annual CS
>> magi in my hand and noticing all the discrepancies was an eye opener for
>> me.
>> When CS thinks the 2003 ION and 2005 ION do not deserve mention of major
>> powertrain changes that put up a red flag for me.
>>
>> Add to that the CS always highly rates foreign cars and has in the past
>> been
>> class-action sued over their false high safety ratings of the 1st gen
>> Focus
>> and Cavalier models which resulted in deaths, I give absolutely no stock
>> in
>> trusting CS other than reviewing toasters and refrigerators.
>>
>> That said, the VUE is a good vehicle. But stay away from 2002-2004 models
>> which will have the CVT transmissions. In mid-2004 the VUE went to a
>> Honda
>> powetrain, eliminating the CTV belt-drive engine which was problematic.
>> The
>> engine is very well built and one of the best features of the V6 VUE
>> other
>> than polymer of course. The 4cyl was given a Hydromatic tranny in late
>> 2004,
>> ending the CVT failed run. The VUE kept the same Saturn 4cyl and Honda
>> engines until 2008 when Saturn changed production of the VUE based on the
>> GM
>> Daewoo concept for Opel and Saturn which now share many components.
>>
>> The 2008 VUE is built in the same Ramos Arizpe plant which manufactures
>> some
>> Chevys and other GM
>> crossovers.http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_n26147289
>>
>> While it is not a US factory (boo) it is considered one of the higher
>> standard quality plants GM has in the world. The new VUE now has a
>> Hydromatic transmission and is paired with a number of engines including
>> a
>> new 4cylinder 145hp or a variant of the Cadillac CTS engine made
>> exclusively
>> for Saturn at 257 hp.
>>
>> If you are looking for a used VUE, anything after mid-2004 is ok. AVIOD
>> CVT
>> transmissions at all costs! In 2007 the VUE gained 5 more hp on the 4cyl,
>> in
>> 2006 a new rounder body style.
>>
>> Hope my rambling helps you.
>> marx404
>>
>> _____________"Dan" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> >I have a 1996 SL2 with 240k+ miles on it and just the normal wear & tear
>> >problems. It has been the best new car I have had. I am now looking for
>> >an
>> >SUV and the Consumer Reports negative view of the Saturn Vue concern me.
>> >Are the Vue's from 2007 and newer worthy of the negative opinion?
>>
>> > My experience with the SL2 makes me want to stick with the Saturn
>> > but...- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I would talk to used car shop owners, If you know them personally,
> they will tell you to stay away from the vue.. they are crap. I'd fine
> a good shape saturn wagon or sl in the 1999 or 2000 year or buy a
> pontiac. I do like the new aura but it will be a few years before
> start showing up in the used market.
>
>
> It is often said that 'good marketing is having what buyers want, and
> selling is trying to make business with what you have available.'
>
> With respect, marx404 is currently in the sales business.
>
> I agree that CR (and marx404) is somewhat biased and not always in
> agreement with MHO.
>
> IMHO an SW1 (w 5sp) is a great car and good examples are now available for
> VERY reasonable prices. (and repairs are now very reasonable because of
> the current availability of used parts.) I suspect that Marx404 does not
> have good examples on his lot for long. I would love to be able to buy
> another new one but am NOT interested in any of the current offerings and
> suspect that the best years of the Saturn car experiment are in the past.
> I often think about how good a 3rd generation S series could have been.
> IMHO I am not the only customer who is looking for FUEL EFFICIENT and LOW
> COST transportation and is not interested in the bloated high margin
> offerings from the domestic manufacturers. I will just have to 'make do
> with what I've got,' there are lots of cheap miles left in them.
>
> Good luck and 'happy trails'.
>

"marx404" > wrote in message
...
>I am actually not in sales but I have worked for Saturn, which would make
>me knowledgeable about the cars (how is that relevant anyways? Im not
>ashamed of it, so what?) , so with all due respect "Private" I know who you
>really are and outing me still even on here does not discredit me. I
>thought you got thrown off of SaturnFans for TROLLing people ? Only the
>name has changed but your bad behavior hasn't, too bad there's so much
>hating. I feel bad for you that you have to resort to such low blows.

With respect,
I was very careful to qualify my comments ("with respect and IMHO"), I am
entitled to and stand by them.
I neither made nor intended insult.
You are very knowledgeable and (to your credit) have never hidden your
connections/associations to the Saturn business. Some people (but not I)
might suggest that many of your comments verge on commercial use and are a
violation of (IMHO an overly strict interpretation of) the Usenet charter,
but I prefer to view (most of) them as helpfully intentioned and
unobjectionable.
We all have biases and should recognize and acknowledge them.
I do not recall EVER having posted on SaturnFans but I have visited and read
the site on occasion. If you consider my post (which I clearly qualified as
"with respect and IMHO") as "bad behaviour or low blows" then I respectfully
submit you should examine your ad hominem response.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinions.