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Old January 15th 08, 10:31 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
hobbes
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Posts: 11
Default Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- TheStory ....

On Jan 15, 11:43*am, "Elle" >
wrote:
> Hi Mike, what I recall from posts here is that (1) the Bosch
> O2 sensors seem not to send a very good signal to the ECU,
> ultimately seeming to throw off fuel efficiency; and (2) the
> Bosch's fail sooner. Re "planar O2 sensors," you know as
> much or more than I on them, and I would be googling.
>
> From reading here and my general reflections, I think it's
> okay to just wait until the Bosch dies, assuming the car
> seems to run fine, which you say yours does. Worrying about
> say, the effects on the Cat Converter seems overboard. But
> I'd go OEM next time for sure, especially since you can get
> one pretty cheap from the Auto Medic source.
>
> Bear in mind I am a cheapskate. In my adult life I have
> typically started by buying the cheap stuff. Some works
> fine. Others support the adage, "You get what you pay for."
>
> So where I now go OEM for my 91 Civic:
> --All electrical ignition parts (plugs, wires, dizzy cap and
> rotor, igniter, coil). Believe me, I have used non-OEM with
> all these except maybe the plugs, and the lifetimes and
> performance were worse.
> --Timing belt replacement parts (belt, water pump,
> tensioner, crank and cam shaft seals)
> --Alternators (but would go with rebuilt OEM ones, assuming
> a brush replacement did not work)
> --Most anything electrical, especially the O2 sensor
>
> Non-OEM:
> --Air filter
> --Fuel filter
> --Anti-freeeze (will only use orange Havoline though)
> --Radiator, from reading here, aftermarket appears to be
> fine
> --Alternator and power steering belts (dunno if non-OEM is
> wise, but so far, so good)
>
> "hobbes" > wrote
> On Jan 12, 1:17 pm, "Elle"
>
> > wrote:
> > Bosch O2 sensors are bad Jujubes, grasshopper.

>
> > OEM Denso is available for around $70 total for your Civic
> > athttps://www.automedicsupply.com

>
> > "hobbes" > wrote

>
> > > The oxygen sensor I got hold of was a Bosch- Hide quoted
> > > text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -

>
> Hi Elle,
>
> Thanks for the tip. I have been driving around for a while
> now with
> the Bosch one. It seems O.K. ... then again I am not that
> much of a
> car expert. I think my one is the Planar Oxygen sensor type.
>
> Just as a matter of interest, what are the main advantages
> of the
> Denso o2 sensors when compared with Bosch? Are there big
> differences.
> Maybe when the Bosch breaks I will get a Denso next time
> around. Is
> the Denso also a Planar type?
>
> Best, Mike.


Hi Elle,

Thanks for the information. Will see how far I get. I also found out
some interesting stuff about Oxygen Sensors. And I think I know why
people buying non OEM ones are having issues.

In a nutshell an Oxygen Sensor has a certain sensitivity which is
related to:

1) The Spinell layer microporosity. Ths Spninell layer is a protection
layer sprayed onto the Zicronia to protect it. The ticker the layer
the more protection, the lower the sensitivity
2) The number of slits on the outer casing. More holes and slits, the
more exposed the sensor is, and hence you get more response voltage.
But it degrades faster.

Then the sensitivity needed is related to the distance of the sensor
to the cyliners. So one that is position futher away needs to be more
sensitive. And that distance is related to the velocity and
temperature of the exhaust. If you have a turbo, high heat and fast
exhaust, that sensor needs to be more protected and further away from
the cylinders.

So in a nutshell it is important to get the right Sensor for your car.
I think it is better to stay away from "Universal" sensors, and get
one which is within the OEM specs, be it a Bosch, Denso etc. That will
have the right number of holes / slits and Spinell layer coating for
(a) big enough voltage output to the ECM and (b) effective use
longevity. I.E. You need to look very carefully at all the Oxygen
Sensors and pick one which is OEM replacement type for your car.

Here is a link I found which I think is rather good on this topic.

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/may98/techtips.htm

It also mentions that the ECM compensates for the Spinell layer
degredation as time goes by. So it sort of expects the Oxygen Snesor
to degrade, and voltage output to fall. It compensates for this by
changing the monitoring pulse with frequency. So I guess it is
important to get an O2 Sensor with the same degradation profile as the
ECM is expecting.

O2 Sensors also come in various types. The first ones where (a)
unheated thimble types. Then came (b) heated thimble types and now (c)
heated planar types. 50% of all cars have now the Planar type. Heating
the O2 sensor means it gets to operating temperature faster, and stays
at that temperature even if your engine is idling. The Planar ones get
to that temp in about 12 seconds. Thimbles ones in about 40 seconds.

The latest (s) Wide-Band Planar Oxygen sensors have a small gas pump.
This allows them to send a "This much petrol" signal rather than a two
level only LEAN or RICH signal.

Warmest regards, Mike.

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