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Old February 5th 07, 06:30 PM posted to alt.autos.audi
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Default '87 Audi 4000s fuel problem - wont start

On Feb 5, 8:41 am, "dave AKA vwdoc1" > wrote:
> hmmm
> Not to get too picky or exact, but did you perform the tests like I
> instructed? :-)
> Cranking the engine brings other things that could cause problems such as
> the ign switch which could, if faulty, lose power to key components like the
> FPR, fuel pump, ign system, etc! Even the power could drop below 10 volts
> while you are cranking over the engine.
>
> It sounds like you disconnected the lines to the injectors instead of
> removing the injectors.
> It sounds like you did not jump the fuel pump relay.
>
> Now if you are getting correct power to the fuel system and ign system, and
> you have fuel pressure at the fuel distributor, and you pull up on the fuel
> distributor plate while the fuel pump is running and you get no fuel out of
> the injectors................................then it sounds like either the
> FPR or the Fuel Distributor might be the cause of your problem. But I am
> just guessing here since I am not sure if power gets lost to the FPR while
> you are cranking over the engine.
>
> Bentley is the better manual and you can find them on Ebay sometimes.
>
> later,
> dave
> (One out of many daves)
>
> > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Feb 4, 6:13 pm, "dave AKA vwdoc1" > wrote:
> >> Do you have a repair manual? Even a Haynes (cough cough) could help
> >> some.

>
> >> Remove intake boot off of fuel distributor so you can manually lift up
> >> the
> >> plate.
> >> Remove injector(s) out of the cylinder head and aim into a container so
> >> you
> >> can examine spray pattern.
> >> Remove fuel pump and jump correct wires to run fuel pump continually.
> >> Turn ign on but do not start car.

>
> >> Pull up on fuel distributor plate to check fuel injector spray pattern.
> >> Tell us what happens?
> >> If it sprays out that is good and you might just need to adjust something
> >> or
> >> change a sensor.
> >> If nothing sprays out then I suspect either a bad fuel distributor, bad
> >> Fuel
> >> Pressure Regulator, bad wiring, missing fuse, clogged injectors, no fuel
> >> pressure or ????

>
> >> The ground wire for the FPR usually breaks at the cold start valve.

>
> >> No the temperature sensor for the gauge is different than the one for the
> >> fuel injection. ;-)

>
> >> later,
> >> dave
> >> (One out of many daves)

>
> >> > wrote in message

>
> groups.com...

>
> >> > Hello Audi 4000 fuel help still needed

>
> >> > Been busy at work, not much time to work on the Audi until last week.

>
> >> > Still having problems getting this car to run, was wondering if there
> >> > are any other ideas out there?

>
> >> > I still can not get the fuel injector unit to shoot fuel into the
> >> > injectors. It still fires fuel to the cold start valve, enough juice
> >> > to run 3-5 seconds.

>
> >> > I checked all fuses, put new ones in the blank spaces.

>
> >> > I checked the fuel injector air-door, it opened fine.

>
> >> > I replaced the entire fuel injector unit with a used one I had from a
> >> > parts lot I bought.

>
> >> > I changed the fuel regulator as well, the one on the injector unit, I
> >> > believe this is the "Differential fuel pressure sensor (just in
> >> > front of fuel distributor." ,that you mentioned
> >> > As far as the "Failing engine temp senso" " the MFTS ", is this the
> >> > same as the temperature sending switch? . Could this really keep the
> >> > fuel injector unit from firing? Can I bypass this to test it?
> >> > There is no massive air leak at the large intake manifold
> >> > The ignition switch is fine, it is new, it is getting power to the
> >> > fuel pump and other systems

>
> >> > Any help would be appreciated!!

>
> >> > Richy Jackson
> >> > On Jan 2, 11:07 pm, "dave AKA vwdoc1" > wrote:
> >> >> Like TonyJ said..............it might be a Failing engine coolant temp
> >> >> sensor (CTS)

>
> >> >> Or a fuse in the fuse box. It is positioned to look like a spare fuse
> >> >> and
> >> >> many times I will find it missing on a vehicle that is not running
> >> >> right
> >> >> if
> >> >> running at all. 8^o
> >> >> Examine all of the fuses for any broken ones and stick a fuse in all
> >> >> sockets
> >> >> with terminals.

>
> >> >> Or it could be the ground wire for the fuel pressure regulator is
> >> >> broken
> >> >> and
> >> >> it should be located at the cold start valve.

>
> >> >> Or it could be a defective fuel distributor.

>
> >> >> Or it could be a massive air leak at the large intake manifold boots.
> >> >> Maybe
> >> >> a light engine backfire into the intake system along with the gas
> >> >> pedal
> >> >> being depressed might have caused a hose/pipe to pop off creating a
> >> >> large
> >> >> vacuum leak.

>
> >> >> Or it could be the ign switch not allowing power to the systems when
> >> >> it
> >> >> is
> >> >> in the ON position. Telltale signs would be those red idiot lights
> >> >> not
> >> >> being ON with the ign ON or while cranking over the engine.

>
> >> >> good luck and let us know what happens!
> >> >> later,
> >> >> dave
> >> >> AKA vwdoc1

>
> >> >> "TonyJ" > wrote in message

>
> >> ...

>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >> I was wondering of anyone could help me with a problem that
> >> >> >> suddenly
> >> >> >> developed with my AUDI,

>
> >> >> >> The car is a 1987 Audi 4000s 1.8L
> >> >> >> Here is the deal, the car will start for second or two, but will
> >> >> >> not
> >> >> >> rev up, then it dies.

>
> >> >> >> Fuel pump and filters are new.

>
> >> >> >> Strong fuel pressure to the Fuel injector unit.

>
> >> >> >> The injector unit is sending fuel to the cold start valve, but not
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> the cylinders, thus the car will start but will not continue to
> >> >> >> run.
> >> >> >> The pressure to the cold start valve is strong, but not a drop to
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> fuel injectors.

>
> >> >> >> I replaced the external fuel regulator with a spare one and checked
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> vacuum leaks etc.

>
> >> >> >> I am not sure where to look from here, internally on the Fuel
> >> >> >> Injection
> >> >> >> Unit, or to a relay or other control.

>
> >> >> >> As I stated the problem happened overnight.

>
> >> >> >> Any help would be appreciated.
> >> >> >> I have not used a internet group before, do I hope I am doing this
> >> >> >> right...........

>
> >> >> >> Thanks,

>
> >> >> >> Richy Jackson

>
> >> >> > If the air plate just above the air filter is stuck the injectors
> >> >> > will
> >> >> > not
> >> >> > fire. This can be due to vacuum leaks (you checked but check
> >> >> > again)
> >> >> > or
> >> >> > deposits on the rod above the plate.

>
> >> >> > Open air cleaner and reach up into the intake just above. The plate
> >> >> > should
> >> >> > move but with a little pressure. Don't force it.

>
> >> >> > Other ideas:
> >> >> > Differential fuel pressure sensor (just in front of fuel
> >> >> > distributor.

>
> >> >> > Blown engine management fuse (in the side of the relay box.

>
> >> >> > Failing engine temp sensor. In the T44s it is called the MFTS and it
> >> >> > is
> >> >> > located by the upper radiator hose inlet to the engine.- Hide quoted
> >> >> > text -

>
> >> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> >> - Show quoted text -

>
> > Hey Dave,

>
> > Thanks for the reply,

>
> > Yup, I have a good old Haynes manual; read it a couple times...!! I will
> > get a shop manual..

>
> > I did take off the hoses to the fuel injectors and cranked the engine,
> > nothing comes out, except for the line to the Cold Star Valve that
> > gives a nice spray to the intake...

>
> > I tested this with both my original, and a replacement fuel injector
> > unit, in both cases, plenty of fuel to cold start valve, nothing to
> > fuel injectors. I already pulled the plate up as you suggest. still
> > nothing from the fuel injector hoses

>
> > Replaced both fuel regulators, car has new fuel pump and filters,
> > plenty of fuel pressure to injector unit...

>
> > The ground to the cold start valve is fine

>
> > As I have tried a replacement injector unit, it does the same thing, I
> > am thinking it I electrical, fuses are good.

>
> > I read the voltage of the fuel regulator that is on the fuel
> > distributor unit or, it shows 8 v, there is an electrical connection
> > on the other side.

>
> > Something is keeping the Fuel distributor unit from shooting fuel to
> > the injectors, any other thoughts?

>
> > Tell me again about the temp sensor for the fuel distributor, where is
> > it located & would it stop the fuel injector unit from firing?

>
> > This car ran fine until a couple months ago, I changed brake lines &
> > complete exhaust & then it stopped running...

>
> > Any help would be cool..

>
> > Richy Jackson- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


Thanks Dave


Sorry, I was not disrepecting your instructions.....I had run the
tests the way I stated a couple days ago before I read
yourinstructions...

I will dig in & get the Bently manual

If I could bother you with one more Q... tell me about how to jump the
fuel punp relay, did you mean the pump itself, I did this acouple
timnes when I tested, how do I jump the FPR?

Thanks

RJ

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