On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 16:17:30 -0400, John M. >
wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:40:28 -0700, jim beam > wrote:
>
>>On 06/15/2012 09:27 AM, John M. wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> My car has about 375,000 mile on it. Around 200 the relay was
>>> resoldered and it worked fine. Somewhere around 300 (very loose
>>> estimate) it started acting up again so I bought and installed an
>>> aftermarket relay. Around this same time I had to replace the fuel
>>> pump (which gave me plenty of warning of imminent failure).
>>>
>>> Just recently it started acting up again but it's a little different
>>> this time. One day after work about a month ago (Florida = warm
>>> weather), with the car parked outside, it wouldn't start after a try
>>> or two. Then on the third it did. This wasn't a 10 minute wait but
>>> only a few. It happened again a few times within the next week. Once
>>> while I was getting ready to go to work it happened.
>>>
>>> I resoldered the aftermarket relay and it was still acting up. I
>>> still had the original relay so I tried resoldering and installing
>>> it......still acting up. I then (foolishly?) bought and installed a
>>> new pump. Damn!
>>>
>>> Sometimes it fails and then on the 'next' crank it start rights up.
>>> Other times I turn the key, I don't hear the pump, and after a few
>>> seconds without touching the key I do hear it and it will then start.
>>> Right now it's in a no start mode and I'm hoping it will start soon.
>>>
>>> So, I've done a little reading in my archives of this newsgroup and
>>> have come to two possibilities. The ground for the fuel pump or maybe
>>> the ignition switch. Just to note: Once started it does not stall (so
>>> far).
>>>
>>> Upon further reading on the web as I write this: maybe the ecu?
>>>
>>> Any other ideas?
>>
>>sure - in addition to the ignition switch, there's a switch on the
>>transmission gear selector. these things are terrible for gumming up
>>over time and poor contact being made. remove, clean off with solvent,
>>then re-grease and reassemble.
>>
>>but also check the ignition switch. if your keyring has a bunch of junk
>>on it, it can hold the key cylinder slightly out of position and affect
>>the electrical contacts, particularly if this has been going on for a while.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Also, I just threw my back out and can't do a lot of digging around.
>>> Does anybody know where the ground for the pump is on this particular
>>> year?
>>
>>there's a bunch of grounds for this circuit. the one for the pump is
>>visible when you take the rear seat out. the ones near the relay are
>>under the dash.
>>
>>
>>> (Upon further reading I think it's on the thermostat housing -
>>> cleaned and still no start)
>>>
>>> I hope I haven't left anything out.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John M.
>>
>>get a meter and watch what happens to the electrical input to the pump
>>when switched and relayed. work back from there.
>>
>>but check out the transmission selector and ignition switches too. it's
>>worth working on both of them because they get gummed up at around your
>>age of vehicle anyway.
>
>
>This sort of a test. I've tried to comment in this thread a couple of
>times to no avail.
>
>FWIW, my back got worse and I'm still working on a recovery. I'll get
>back when I can perform the work suggested.

After all this time...finally an update. I continued to have back
problems so never got into any heavy wiring diagnostics. One time I
did do something to the ignition switch, can't remember what and it
seemed to work okay after that. All the while it would start but
before that I had to wait maybe about 5 seconds until the pump
started. Now the point is moot because, after driving that car for
almost 20 years, it got stolen Nov. 10. Now I have a 2005 Element.

--

John M.