(Dave) wrote:

>>I agree that the power is an advantage, but how does the weight help?
>
>It doesn't. Never said it did. Miata owners, me included, worship
>at the "add lightness" temple (noting your Elise comment and I too
>want one). Yes, light is good. But I think we all overestimate it.
>But I submit power/weight is by far the biggest component in racing

As you say below, on a racetrack. I sure am not aware of many 115 hp
Miatas dominating Formula 1.

>after the driver (assuming a decently sorted suspension). Sure, make
>it light and you've solved the equation. So does adding power.
>
>Next, any lightweight-disciple will say "yeah, but light makes for
>better cornering and braking". To an extent, I agree. But you can
>make anything brake and corner with great tires, big brakes, and a
>well-sorted suspension.

And aerodynamics.

> "But they all add weight...". Yes, but you
>can still make that up with added hp.

On a racetrack. A car with twice the weight and twice the power of a
Miata is not the same as the original Miata, if it is a handling question
instead of a racetrack.

> Vipers, GT CTS-V race cars,
>and many others go very, very fast

On a racetrack.

> and still weigh 3500 lbs.
>Listen, I don't want to argue myself into a corner, so I'll state
>"YES, LIGHT IS GOOD". But it isn't going to make up for a ****-poor
>power/weight *on a race track*.

Agree completely.

>Look at that Automobile article where they had 9 track cars. The
>Elise finished mid-pack.
>http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.
>php?s=&threadid=3270&highlight=automobile+magazin e
>
>Further, frankly, I think we overestimate the Miata's handling. It
>has *fun* handling. Nice balance, lots of feel, good stick
>(rubber-dependent). But out of the box, too much roll, too much
>weight transfer (though it makes it fun). Yes, aftermarket can
>address all that ... as it can with a Mustang.

If there are aftermarket suppliers that can take Mustang cup holders and
transfer them to a Miata. How about the radius of gyration? The live
rear axle? The different dimensions? The contact patch?

> On the road, any of
>these cars is a lot more capable than what we do with them. If not,
>you are a danger (sand, oil, deer, bicyclist ...).

Actually, a Miata can be taken relatively closely to its capabilities
"on the road." That is what makes the car fun. Are you going to
take a 500 hp car to its 250 mph limit on the road? Or its awkward
handling, designed to put 500 hp on the road rather than
tossability?

>Honestly, I have no idea how well a stock Mustang GT handles. I
>wouldn't believe what I read here anyway. Most everyone says their
>car handles great.

Mine does.

> And will say the other guy's (especially
>American cars) suck. But handling is so subjective it is a
>near-meaningless statement.

So is the statement that a woman is beautiful. Yet there may
be overwhelming agreement with such a statement.

> Bottom line, I'd look for the same
>very competent driver running both a Miata and a Mustang GT stock.
>My bet: on a track other than auto-X, no contest.

No argument there. On a real road, also no contest, unless the
Mustang driver has a dead wish.

>I don't have any proof, but here's an interesting article ...
>
>http://www.edmunds.
>com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=107486?flushCache=true
>
>We all agree the RX-8 is a fine handling car akin to the Miata? And
>it has much better power/weight, so it should be faster on the
>track? Well, here's three drivers of very different ability levels
>lapping it and the Mustang GT (and others). They were all about 3
>sec a lap faster in the junky Ford than the RX-8. Certainly not
>conclusive, but doesn't it make one stop and reconsider their
>preconceptions?
>
>I still prefer my Miata. But I wouldn't diss anyone who either (a)
>prefers the Mustang or (b) wants to add power to their Miata.

I added power to mine, so I will not disagree.

>My apologies for the long-winder post ... if you got here ...

Hic sunt leones
--
Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)