On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 15:00:53 +0100, (SteveH)
wrote:

>Agreed - 6-pots aren't the way forward. Everyone wants a small capacity
>turbo these days.

I'm not so sure..diesel has still got traction and the price equality
between diesel and petrol helps diesel sales. I'm also not sure that
the smaller turbo petrols (1.4-2.0 ish segment) will really give
diesel that much to worry about in real world fuel economy.

An example of this is that I can *easily* get 60mpg at 60mph out of my
3 litre. It's a big, heavy 4 door saloon but can still do 7.4 to
100kph and 144 top. The latest version of that engine (in the 330d)
does 6.1(!!) to 100kph and 155 limited and has better fuel economy
than mine. I just can't help feeling that even good turbo petrols are
going to have a tough time pulling off both those tricks in a similar
sized car.

>In the BMW range - the biggest sellers are cars with the 2.0 4-pot
>diesel - both in the 1, 3 and 5. (this lump is badged as a 116, 118,
>120, 318, 320 and 520, along with the X1 and X3 - don't think the X5 got
>the 2.0 option, though)

I don't really think Alfa can properly compete in the 2.0 diesel
sector as they've not got the reputation, sales and service capacity
and that market is saturated by more popular makes. Tends to make me
think they should be pushing the envelope upwards and attempting to
compete with the bigger boys. Hassle is that the reasons I gave for
their failure in the lower segments would probably hinder them in the
upper ones too. cf the 166. Some might risk buying some junk for
20,000UKP but fewer will for 40,000UKP. One escape would have been if
the Mito had had a pretty front end..build up volume in smaller cars.
Oh no, Fiat wouldn't allow that!

>> What would be interesting would be if they could increase the current
>> 5 to a 3 litre capacity to attempt to compete against the 3 litre
>> German opposition. Pumping more and more fuel into the 2.4 is going to
>> fail because many buy diesels for fuel efficiency and there is already
>> increased competition from smaller capacity turbo petrol engines.
>
>Hmmmm, I think 2.4 is pushing the limits of the block already - remember
>it was originally a 2.0 5-pot.

Indeed, I forgot about that. I was thinking that the 2.4 was one
cylinder added to a 1.9 block. Instead the 1.9 is probably one
cylinder lopped off the 2.4.

>I see Alfa in the Volvo / Saab / VW sector. Which appears to be dead on
>its feet. They wouldn't want to enter the mainstream with Ford / GM and
>the French, can't step up to the BMW / Mercedes class, so sit in that
>middle ground.

Yep..that's what I was getting at but didn't explain as well as you.
The trouble is that they're in a no-man's land largely appealing to
Alfa enthusiasts only.

>Strangely, a 159 is a much more attractive package than a Mondeo - you
>get a lot more car for your money - but that may be because Ford seem to
>be intent on pricing themselves out of the market these days. (Of our
>company car proposed list - Prius, Insight and Focus Econetic - the
>Focus is the lowest power, lowest spec. and highest price).

How many non-Alfisti even have Alfa on their radar now?

>> I just wish Alfa could do better but with bugger all dealers and
>> limited choice of premium saloon car it's an uphill task. I mean,
>> where were Alfa when the premium saloon knocked the Mondeo into touch?
>
>Alfa were there at the start of the Mondeo's decline - think back to how
>many 156s were shifted into the fleet market in the late 90s. Sadly the
>156 soldiered on for too long before the 159 came along - then Alfa
>appeared to lose interest in fleet sales.

I don't really know what happened there. I mean the best of the 156
cars (IMHO) were in 2001 roughly when sales also peaked. There were
tales of people only buying one Alfa then moving elsewhere due to
dissatisfaction with some element(s) of Alfa ownership but I also
wonder if Giugiaro messed up the aspirational 156 look - he did for
me.

I didn't look at the post facelift cars and say "I've got to have one
of those" but I certainly did with the original Da Silva car before my
wife told me to get one! She now much prefers the Beemer but my 7 year
old daughter wants the Alfa back!

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
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