"Saltheart_Foamfollower" > wrote in message
...
> First off I respect your knowledge and experience Steve.

Well you didn't wait long to make your 1st mistake... ;-)

> Ive never driven spa and likely never will but I do have eyes and can see
> cars of every type bobbing up and down violently when encountering bumps
at
> speed. All car types and all tracks are effected by bumps although some
> are smoother than others (the F1 race in the mid-east comes to mind).
>
> Perhaps the bumps arent modeled perfectly in GTR and the motec data looks
> funky but Id rather have a simulation of the bump even if its not perfect
> than an unrealistically flat track (which is what weve had to date).

Thus my comment commending bump modeling. I LIKE bumps; glass smooth
surfaces are boring. But dedicated motor racing circuits are by and large
much smoother than the streets we drive on, and the bumps they do have do
not resemble motocross tracks. The damper velocities in Motec look OK, it's
just the range of travel that makes it look off.

> Hmmm. So the Cart race in SJ wasnt an automobile race? Or you just blow
it
> off because it doesnt fit your questionable argument?

Not at all; it's just that the Champcars have stiffer suspensions with less
travel, and city streets, even ones that get some TLC are nowhere near as
smooth as dedicated race tracks, which the GTR tracks are. Those poor
suckers at SJ were getting liquified!

> Basically youre saying if they cant do it right dont even try? Where
would
> we be in simracing had everyone had your idealogy. Nowhere. No Indy500,
no
> Bill Elliots Nascar Challenge, no Indycar racing 1-2, no F1RC, no GPL, no
> NRseries, no GTR, no GTL, no rFactor, no nothing. I prefer the devs at
> least try.

Said nothing of the sort. Only that I think they overshot it going for the
"effect." Hell, I applaud SimBin for doing GTR; I love the idea of it, I
just never could sort out the stuttering graphics or get past the level of
chattering & porpoising. The former was inherited from ISI in gMotor1, but
the latter was their own doing. It may be the bump amplitude in the
surfaces, or some harmonic coming from the frequency of the bumps and the
physics engine. Dunno. I expect the effect on grip, particularly at low
speed, is why ISI is using a two-stage, tweakable cockpit shake effect in
rFactor instead of doing it with the racing surface. Just a guess, though.
Too bad GTR's not as open as native ISI work so you could muck around in
there and see what's what. But I expect they'll have it sorted for the next
iteration of GTR and look forward to that; in the meantime I think I'll be
enjoying GTL.

> Why did GPL get a pass? It has a horrid tire model yet that didnt keep it
> from being perhaps the best racing simulation for many years.

Jeez, man; that was 1998, after all. Papy themselves stealth-tweaked the
tire model with the first patch, and even Kaemmer himself has said the tire
model falls short. Times change. As for it's longevity, GPL was never
perfect; it was just a huge leap over what had come before, and for some
time after it was still the best relative to what else was out there in
terms of the total package. In some ways it arguably still is; thus it's
continued following. I doubt we'll see that big a leap again; what you're
seeing now is convergence, where all sims are beginning to feel more alike.
Which is what you'd expect; cars being cars, after all. But I hope I'm
wrong - I would LOVE to see the sim that would have me uninstalling GPL...