Tony R:
>I would completely disagree. Real drivers feel car movement through their
>inner ear which matches up with what they see. Check out reserch on
>simulator sickness to understand why some people simply can't deal with
>when the two are mismatched.
>
> FFB is a relatively poor way of trying to substitute for inner ear inputs.
> I would believe the "swaying seats" are actually a much more promising
> method of replacing such a key input.
>
> For a non driver FFB may provide a means of learning to drive in a sim
> environment but for the vast majority who actually drive real cars it is
> an aid not a substitute. The graphical cues represent far closer to what a
> real driver uses and many real world drivers are very successful with zero
> or very low FFB becuase it just represents noise. For others it adds
> immersion.
>
> Speaking of immersion the company Immersion has patented force feedback in
> the devices we use and hardware development as such is potentially
> hampered by that fact.
>
> I believe you fit into the category with no real world driving experience
> (.i.e. never held a driving licence), Mario? So have no experience of how
> the feel of the pants sensation of car rotation translates into the sim
> racing world.

I drive maxy scooter, and have bike driving licence (not car). I did
drive a car few times. I do feel the grip on bike as well, and drive this
bike whole year, even in winter.
The thing is simple, and is written below (a citation from my
previous post).
Second thing, the FFB we have isn't applied rightly by simracers
(on a [wrong] recommendation of some FFB "gurus", and iRacing). As you know,
I am researching this. I found out "the right" way to apply FFB, and this
(RIGHT) way can help people much better than the wrong way they are doing it
right now.
Third thing, "the wrong" way works by creating a (FALSE) tension (by
the mean of Centering Spring, and by that way keeping the car under
control). This isn't that bad idea, the only thing is, as much this is good
in some situations, that much it is bad in some other situations, because
this is all false. The further porblem is if you are trying to develop sim
further, on the basis of this BIASED sensation. This becames worse and
futher away from the reality with every new step you do.
The fourth thing, if people apply FFB the way it was intended, they
could develop it further. For example, it looks like things overheat after
some time (I was using overal 113%). Now, if you know that this AFFECTS the
FFB sensation, then you can develop further in the way of applying some
cooling to wheel. But, if you are applying FFB the false way, you will
never realize what is actually happening within the wheel, and within the
FFB. People, you are all wrong. Instead of chasing who-knows-what (the thing
you will never catch, doing things wrongly), you should do this RIGHTLY,
from the very bottom, up. Now you all think you are very smart, because
everybody is like that, and you shut the mouth to whoever disagrees, the
only problem is, this will lead you nowhere. I know a guy (you know who),
who is world fames FFB guru, but he even doesn't know that Centering Spring
works even if unchecked. THIS is the level of understanding of FFB that is
acceptable, both, by sim community, and by iRacing. Pitiful.

Mario

>Mario Petrinovic:
>> FFB is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing in this business. Without FFB,
>> this is like audio without speakers. You cannot make a picture do a sound
>> for you.
>> We'll see.