Michael Johnson, PE wrote:

> >>Sorry Patrick, but the last thing we need to do is give the government
> >>one more way to yank money from our wallets. They have more ways to do
> >>it than we can count right now.

> >>They need to REDUCE the taxes they currently have on gas.

Right, then the American consumer is so darn happy with the cheap gas
he responds by doing what? Well, of course, he consumes more gas which
in turn drives the price, and the profits of oil-rich countries (many
of which we are spending huge amounts/$Bs of dollars wagging war on or
trying to control.), back up.

Plus, cheap gas keeps anyone from investing in alternative fuel
sources. It's a nice little cycle. And that's the main reason the
oil-rich countries walk a tight-rope on prices -- high enough to make
good money, but not too high to cause investment in alternatives.

> >>Gas tax hurts the people that can least afford it the most.

Only if the government doesn't "redistribute" those dollars in the
forms of compensation -- reduction of other taxes.

> >> The government collects plenty of taxes. They don't need more money, they > >> need to make do with less.

Agreed.

> > Even though the prices of crude do have an impact there is also the
> > issue of the capacity to turn raw crude into fuels. There hasn't been
> > a new refinery built in the US in about 30 years while the demand
> > curve has steadily increased.

That's an issue, but the bottom line is demand is growing faster than
they can pump it out of the ground.

> > Certain taxes on fuel are supposed to go to pay for the infrastructure
> > to support the use of vehicles, i.e. roads & bridges. Unfortunately
> > in many states these taxes go directly into the states general funds
> > and never do get spent on improving the roads if the roads in my area
> > are any indicator.

The problem is we have more roads/bridges than we can take care of. A
road that was a single lane ten years ago, is now probably two lanes,
at least. And a two-lane road is twice as expensive to resurface.

> > Yes driving a high-performance vehicle to & from work is a royal
> > blast. However, it simply isn't required. The major problem is no
> > viable mass transit alternative for the majority of the country to get
> > anywhere. I can drive the 18 miles to work in 30/40 minutes. If I
> > was to take the bus it would be more like 2.5 hours in each direction
> > and I still have to get to the bus stop.

There is no fix to that one. Human nature is we all want our space.
And space now often means living 10+ miles from work.

> > The answer is out there somewhere, but I doubt that anyone in the US
> > government is going to come up with it.

It's higher fuel prices by way of higher gas taxes. Think about this.
If you had to pay say... an extra $1K per year for fuel, but received
other tax cuts to make up the difference what would your response be?
Of course, you'd find ways to cut your gas consumption, and a brainy
neighbor or company would search for cheaper alternatives to oil.

> If the government wants to reduce our consumption of fuel then they
> should just ration gasoline and be done with it. That way we won't have
> them digging in our wallets so deep. Personally, I think fuel should be
> taxed just like any other commodity. Just apply the state's sales tax
> rate.

Drop gas prices that far and you'd breed fleets of Hummer-sized
vehicles.

> Fuel tax is just another way government has found to increase
> revenue covertly. I don't believe these amounts per gallon tax rates
> are shown on the pumps. Why do you think that is so? Also, why are
> they included in the advertised price? If the tax was added on to the
> purchase like sales tax the public would be forced to know they are
> getting raped on gas taxes and probably wouldn't stand for it.

Exactly, and then the consumer would respond to the new lower prices by
doing the above.

> The reason I am so passionate about lowering taxes, or at least keeping
> them stagnant, is that we are taxed at incredible rates when all the
> local, state and federal taxes are combined. Individually they don't
> seem so bad but add them up and most of us would be shocked. The thing
> is that many of these taxes are not based on income so the poor are hit
> disproportionately hard. Hell, state governments even pray on people
> through lotteries. Many of the people I see buying those tickets
> haven't got the income to justify such an extravagant purchase. Do you
> think the government cares that they are praying on the poor by offering
> lottery tickets? Granted, no one is forced to by a lottery ticket but I
> expect more from our elected leaders than to shamelessly take money from
> people that can't afford it.

Aren't they required to print the odds of winning on every ticket? If
folks can't do simple math, or use simple logic, they deserve their
money to be ****ed away. But let's face the facts, most want a
"simple" way to fortune.

> One day people will put all this together and the politicians will be
> held accountable at the ballot box. It is happening gradually right
> now. Why do you think the Republicans have retained the House, Senate
> and more often than not the Presidency?

They have big business and the religous right in their back pocket?
Money + religion is tough to beat/defeat. Just ask Bin Laden.

> The biggest reason is they are the only party that is willing to cut taxes.

They're not cutting sh*t. They're building debt. Yeah, they give you a
little tax break here and there, but they're paying for it with a check
they don't have the funds for.

> Even they aren't doing it enough to suit most people. It is happening here
> where I live at the local level. People can't understand why there property
> taxes are sky rocketing when inflation isn't. The expenses of the local
> government aren't increasing 20% a year so why are their local taxes. The
> average person is starting to see what is being done to them from a tax
> standpoint. It may take a few more election cycles but I believe there
> will be a major shift in the public's attitude toward how they are taxed.

Oh, it's coming. But unfortunately the debt will still need to be
paid.

> Well, I feel better after that rant.

Me too.

Patrick
'93 Cobra