C. E. White wrote:

>
> You are ignoring the fact that the throttle position sensor is a very gross
> indicator. It doesn't supply the fine sort of data that would be needed to
> cause the effects you are suggesting.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm just pointing it out as a potential source of
skew- which it is in some cases. And I said it isn't large.

>Take a look at a shop manual for a
> Toyota

No thanks. I don't do Toyota.


>> Of course the dirty air filter will reduce peak power available, and it
>> will still cause the mixture to be significantly rich during open-loop
>> operation where the MAF sensor is ignored.
>
> The MAF sensor is not ignored during open loop mode. The O2 sensor is.


Yep, my bad. Speed-density systems do have a limp mode in case the MAP
sensor fails, in which case the whole system is run on nothing but the
TPS and a look-up table and that's what I was thinking of- although
that's an aberrent case and not really relevant to the discussion. Gotta
say, though, it works surprisingly well in that the engine will run and
get you home. I assume decent MAF-driven systems have a similar
fail-safe mode.