On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:24:22 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:39:29 -0700, Spike > wrote:
>
>>Or Clinton's "I never had sex with that woman...."
>>
>
>When Clinton Lied, 100,000 people didn't die.
>
>
>> It would be about as worthwhile as Bush's illegal and
>>immoral terror attack on Iraq, and the manufacture's
>>claims of better performance and efficiency are about
>>as honest as Bush's claims of freedom and democracy.
>> HTH!
The cop in me always screams whenever I hear unsubstantiated claims
made; whether by attorneys, or witnesses; to a judge or jury. Claims
such as this are submitted by you and others before the public who act
as judge and or jury... desiring to influence the verdict; in this
case history's verdict. Soooo.....

Ah, but the proof is in the "EVIDENCE". Clinton admitted he lied, as
you acknowledged. That's evidence of both immoral and illegal
wrong-doing. As yet, where is the "PROOF" that Bush did anything
immoral or illegal? It's so easy to say things which you can't prove,
and which do not need to be proven in order to damage someone's
reputation. .

Bring me PROOF which can be used to prosecute or impeach and I'll
gladly stand with you, but let's not turn into a lynch mob society
where we convict without evidence. Let's stick to the "PROVABLE FACTS"
and not spread personal views held up as fact.

Before making unsubstantiated claims, ask of yourself, if YOU did
something you believed was right, morally and legally, and there was
no "evidence" of wrong doing on your part, would you want people going
around making claims that 100,000 people died because you did
something immoral and illegal? Would you enjoy having your family and
friends hearing such allegations against you? Your children being
taunted in school?

IF you just happen to be correct, then every soldier, sailor, and
airman involved is also responsible for committing immoral and illegal
acts resulting in the deaths of 100,000. So, too, is every Senator and
Congressman who supported the President's actions, no matter what they
use to justify that support, nor what they tell the voters today. It
follows that every citizen who voted those Senators, Congressmen, and
the President into office is responsible because....

NO MAN IS AN ISLAND
"All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies,
one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better
language; and every chapter must be so translated...As therefore the
bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but
upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much
more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness....No man is
an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I
am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the
bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
John Donne
Meditation XVII
This famous meditation of Donne's puts forth two essential ideas which
are representative of the Renaissance era in which it was written:

The idea that people are not isolated from one another, but that
mankind is interconnected; and The vivid awareness of mortality that
seems a natural outgrowth of a time when death was the constant
companion of life. Donne brings these two themes together to affirm
that any one man's death diminishes all of mankind, since all mankind
is connected; yet that death itself is not so much to be feared as it
at first seems.

http://isu.indstate.edu/ilnprof/ENG451/ISLAND/

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On a lighter note....
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls; and you pay only the direct dial
rate."
The Power of Positive Pessimism
Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.

"When the time comes to lay down my life for my country,
I do not cower from this responsibility. I welcome it."
-JFK Inaugural Address