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Old January 10th 18, 07:18 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Xeno
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Default Drum brakes - do you disconnect the parking brake cable?

On 10/01/2018 2:34 PM, Mad Roger wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Jan 2018 22:04:15 -0500,
> Clare Snyder wrote:
>
>> You do NOT need to know the ratings.

>
> I respectfully disagree with you - but I agree with you that if you buy
> from someone you *trust* (e.g., the dealership or your best friend who
> works at an auto parts store), then you don't need to worry about friction
> ratings because *they* worry about the friction rating for you.
>
> But let's face it.
> A brake shoe has one and only one primary job.
> And that's friction.
>
> If the friction rating of the shoe is, say, EF, and you buy FF, you're
> fine, but if you buy EE, then you're getting a shoe that has lower friction
> coefficients than the OEM manufacturer stated.
>
> Now, *after* you get the right friction rating, there's more to the story
> (e.g., dust, noise, warranty, price, etc.), but if you don't know the OEM
> friction rating, then it's impossible to correctly buy brake shoes.
>
> You can get *lucky*.
> But you are just guessing.
>
>> Buy their OEM quality shoes and
>> the manufacturer has done the homework for you. it will meet or excede
>> OEM spec - which is all you need or want.

>
> We're both saying the same thing, which is that the friction rating (which,
> by law, is printed on *every* USA pad) will meet or exceed the OEM spec if
> you buy from a reliable source who would, we hope, refuse to sell you a
> brake pad *lower* than the OEM spec.
>
> Let's hope that's the case for mom and pop - but for me - I trust in the
> friction rating, since it's printed on *every* shoe, it isn't hard to find
> (if the shoe is in your hands).
>
>> They are virtually ALWAYS sourced as a set of 4 - I've never seen
>> shoes sold individually.

>
> I did some more homework by calling the local parts stores (I had called
> the dealer first) who tell me that they sell them for less than twenty
> bucks for a set of four.
>
> The wheel cylinders are cheap also, at about 16 bucks per cylinder and at
> about 7 bucks for the repair kit so I'll get a couple of those too.
>
>>> 2. What's the cold/hot friction rating?

>>
>> You REALLY don't need that - it's not a race car.

>
> Let's just respectfully disagree on whether I should match or exceed the
> friction rating of the OEM brake shoe.
>
> In all my years with disc brakes, I've never bought a pad without knowing
> the friction rating ahead of time (usually FF or GG - but mostly FF) and I
> would never put on a pad that doesn't meet or exceed the OEM friction
> rating.
>
>> That's because it is generally not required for them (or you) to know
>> the rating.

>
> I agree that if I buy Toyota shoes from the Toyota dealership, that the
> friction rating will be correct as it will be the OEM friction rating,
> whatever that is.
>
> So if I buy from the dealer, I don't need to know anything because I would
> be trusting the dealer to give me the correct shoes.
>
> If I buy from Rock Auto, then I have to make the choice based on the
> friction rating first and foremost.
>
> It's not like friction isn't an important thing for a brake shoe.
>
>> If they are OEM quality they WILL beright.

>
> That is true. If that is true that is true.
> It's not always true even if they say it's true.
> I'll trust the two letters printed on the shoe itself.
>
>> They never do. Every one of those manufacturers produce oem quality
>> shoes, as wellas "economy" parts. You want OEM from Wagner, Centric,
>> Raybestos, or Bendix - not familiar with BeckArnley - but have heard
>> good things about their clutches - don't know PowerStop or Monroe -
>> and AC Delco was good when they were a part of GM - but I think it's
>> just a "brand" now - so no idea. No faith in anything Bosch myself -
>> but they MAY make a perfectly adequate product.

>
> You seem to be cognizant of "branding" (e.g., AT&T is just a brand name,
> it's no longer the same company as it was). Brands have value, but you
> know, from oil filters and batteries and tires, etc., that they brand all
> sorts of **** just to get more money for the same thing.
>
> Oil filters are notorious for that. You have to dig deeply to figure out
> who *really* makes that oil filter and what it looks like inside (e.g.,
> paper backflow valves, glued pleats, rubber versus paper stops, etc.).
>
> Branding is bull**** for the most part.
>
> What I care about are friction ratings.
>
> After that, I care about stuff that I will never get the truth on, such as
> dusting, and noise, but that's just a fact of life that you can't get that
> information except from enthusiasts (e.g., Jurid FF pads dust like crazy
> but PBR FF pads don't ... go figure).
>
> The *first* spec on friction material is *always* friction.
>
> After that, you generally don't get the truth even though plenty of other
> stuff matters - but the friction rating is *printed* on ever shoe so it's
> unconscionable not to take it into account when purchasing shoes.
>
> Otherwise you're just guessing.
>
>> Every day of the year - I've NEVER , other than on these newsgroups
>> where "armchair experts" abound, heard of checking the friction rating
>> of replacement friction material for standard street vehicles - and
>> never did for navigational rallye vehicles either. That's a "track"
>> thing. Don't worry about it - just buy the "oem quality" or better
>> shoes.

>
> I've seen people put Wagner EE pads on a car spec'd for FF OEM pads, and
> they didn't even know it.
>
> They showed a picture of the pads and I had to tell them that the pads
> didn't even meet OEM specs.
>
> The sad thing is that they could have had Textar or Axxis pads for about
> the same price that were FF or even GG.
>
> I'll repeat that the PRIMARY job of friction material is friction.
> Hence the friction coefficient is printed on all USA pads and shoes.
>
> There's a *reason* for that.
> You can certainly *trust* to luck - but I prefer to read the shoe.
>
>

Best you toddle off and pay those inflated prices. THE OEM Toyota ones
will be exactly the same friction rating as the ones you are replacing.

--

Xeno
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