Starting in the cold
 

The 159 doesn't.

It is usually reverse parked on the drive (slopes down from
the road) and for a few weeks now it has taken 2 or 3
attempts to fire, but since last weekend it has been
refusing to start except with jump leads (embarrassingly
from my Son's SO P-reg Escort diesel van)

Once started, it is fine for the rest of the day - even
after standing for several hours in the snow/blizzards.

So the last few days, once we were actually able to get
onto the drive again, the routine has been to drive forward
onto the drive and nose under the car port and leave the
batter on charge overnight.

Now it starts ok-ish, takes 4 or 5 10 second bursts of the
starter.

First time it wouldn't start I called out Green Flag, and
the chap put a tester across the battery engine off >12v,
engine running >14v, so battery and alternator were
declared sound.

New battery time?
Something amiss in the ECU or sensors?

--
Rob Pearson
156 1.9jtd sportwagon (now)
164 V6 Lusso (gone)

Starting in the cold
 

"R C Nesbit" > wrote in message
...
> The 159 doesn't.
>
> It is usually reverse parked on the drive (slopes down from
> the road) and for a few weeks now it has taken 2 or 3
> attempts to fire, but since last weekend it has been
> refusing to start except with jump leads (embarrassingly
> from my Son's SO P-reg Escort diesel van)
>
> Once started, it is fine for the rest of the day - even
> after standing for several hours in the snow/blizzards.
>
> So the last few days, once we were actually able to get
> onto the drive again, the routine has been to drive forward
> onto the drive and nose under the car port and leave the
> batter on charge overnight.
>
> Now it starts ok-ish, takes 4 or 5 10 second bursts of the
> starter.
>
> First time it wouldn't start I called out Green Flag, and
> the chap put a tester across the battery engine off >12v,
> engine running >14v, so battery and alternator were
> declared sound.
>
> New battery time?
> Something amiss in the ECU or sensors?

My guess would be failed glow plugs or glow plug relay or connections.
Not sure how easy they are to remove on the 159 but if you can get 'em out
connect them to a 12v battery with stout wire one at a time. They should
glow red within a second or two.

Perhaps easier is to disconnect them and measure resistance, if none at all
they've failed.

TonyB

Starting in the cold
 

R C Nesbit spoke:
> The 159 doesn't.

Er.. that would be 156 (1.9 jtd)

*Why* do I *always* do this?

--
Rob Pearson
156 1.9jtd sportwagon (now)
164 V6 Lusso (gone)

Starting in the cold
 

R C Nesbit > wrote:

> R C Nesbit spoke:
> > The 159 doesn't.
>
> Er.. that would be 156 (1.9 jtd)
>
> *Why* do I *always* do this?

Wishful thinking.
--
SteveH

Starting in the cold
 

"R C Nesbit" > wrote in message
...
>R C Nesbit spoke:
>> The 159 doesn't.
>
> Er.. that would be 156 (1.9 jtd)
>
> *Why* do I *always* do this?
>
> --
> Rob Pearson
> 156 1.9jtd sportwagon (now)
> 164 V6 Lusso (gone)

No matter, I don't know about the 156 either despite having one.

I'll look in the manual thing I downloaded, if it's helpful I'll repost.
TonyB

Starting in the cold
 

"TonyB" > wrote in message
...
>
> "R C Nesbit" > wrote in message
> ...
>>R C Nesbit spoke:
>>> The 159 doesn't.
>>
>> Er.. that would be 156 (1.9 jtd)
>>
>> *Why* do I *always* do this?
>>
>> --
>> Rob Pearson
>> 156 1.9jtd sportwagon (now)
>> 164 V6 Lusso (gone)
>
> No matter, I don't know about the 156 either despite having one.
>
> I'll look in the manual thing I downloaded, if it's helpful I'll repost.
> TonyB
The manual, very helpfully, says "Without removing the heater plugs from the
cylinder heads, check the internal resistance corresponds to the recommended
value."

As I scroll to the next page I lose faith in this manual as it says "156 1.9
JTD" at the top of the page, then " Check the state of the spark plugs and
leads and condition of the air intake circuit."

Even Haynes isn't that bad....

TonyB

Starting in the cold
 

On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 10:21:04 -0000, R C Nesbit > wrote:

>The 156 doesn't.

This isn't always trivial to diagnose on a decent common rail diesel
like these units. My 2.4 popped a warning light on the dash when a
couple of the glow plugs failed but other than that, I couldn't tell.
There was absolutely no sign of hesitancy on cold starts that you
might expect from a couple of cold cylinders. Fuel atomisation is
often sufficient just due to the pressure of the injection system to
allow easy starting in surprisingly cold conditions without
pre-heating at all.

Rather than starting sharply, a cold diesel that needs heat but is
without heat would build up revs on the starter motor before firing
cleanly on all cylinders. This can sometimes take a good (continuous)
while on the starter motor while you effectively build up cylinder
heat via just the compression developed by the pistons and air alone.
I don't know how robust the field coils are on modern diesel starter
motors however. In olden times it was necessary but these days that's
only the case when there's a fault condition.

If forced to guess and the car has done over 50-60 thousand miles or
over 5-6 years old, I'd get an Indy garage to replace all the glow
plugs without giving it too much thought. I saw Alfa quote about
110UKP(!!) each (a few years ago) but my Indy sourced perfectly
decent replacements for under a tenner each. These were fine until I
sold the car over 2 years later so ignore scare stories on the
internet about them. You'll need a 'decent' Indy for peace of mind as
a cowboy might well not replace all but charge you for total
replacement (which is where I think some people get problems so soon
after 'cheap' plugs are fitted at some Indies).

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)

Starting in the cold
 

On 04/12/2010 10:21, R C Nesbit wrote:

<snip>

> First time it wouldn't start I called out Green Flag, and
> the chap put a tester across the battery engine off>12v,
> engine running>14v, so battery and alternator were
> declared sound.
>

Was this a *load* tester, or just a meter?

If it was a load tester, I'd reckon fault glow plug.

> New battery time?

If it was a straight voltmeter, then this.

> Something amiss in the ECU or sensors?

Fix the cheap stuff first :)



--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Starting in the cold
 

Catman spoke:
> > First time it wouldn't start I called out Green Flag, and
> > the chap put a tester across the battery engine off>12v,
> > engine running>14v, so battery and alternator were
> > declared sound.
> >
>
> Was this a *load* tester, or just a meter?

Just a meter.

> If it was a load tester, I'd reckon fault glow plug.
>
> > New battery time?
>
> If it was a straight voltmeter, then this.
>
> > Something amiss in the ECU or sensors?
>
> Fix the cheap stuff first :)

Define 'cheap' - batteries are around a ton.

After a week it is consistent that with the battery hooked up
to the pikey-but-excellent Aldi electronic charger, it starts
after several cranking sessions with a fully charged battery,
so ref. Z's comments about compression building up heat, I
strongly suspect the glow plugs are fubar - however I am
*not* going to freeze my fingers off in this weather
scrambling around under the bonnet to replace them.

I will wait until the weather warms up next week (ha!) and
then forget about it because it will probably start OK in +C
temps

--
Rob Pearson
156 1.9jtd sportwagon (now)
164 V6 Lusso (gone)

Starting in the cold
 

"R C Nesbit" > wrote in message
...
> Catman spoke:
>> > First time it wouldn't start I called out Green Flag, and
>> > the chap put a tester across the battery engine off>12v,
>> > engine running>14v, so battery and alternator were
>> > declared sound.
>> >
>>
>> Was this a *load* tester, or just a meter?
>
> Just a meter.
>
>> If it was a load tester, I'd reckon fault glow plug.
>>
>> > New battery time?
>>
>> If it was a straight voltmeter, then this.
>>
>> > Something amiss in the ECU or sensors?
>>
>> Fix the cheap stuff first :)
>
> Define 'cheap' - batteries are around a ton.
>
> After a week it is consistent that with the battery hooked up
> to the pikey-but-excellent Aldi electronic charger, it starts
> after several cranking sessions with a fully charged battery,
> so ref. Z's comments about compression building up heat, I
> strongly suspect the glow plugs are fubar - however I am
> *not* going to freeze my fingers off in this weather
> scrambling around under the bonnet to replace them.
>
> I will wait until the weather warms up next week (ha!) and
> then forget about it because it will probably start OK in +C
> temps

Oh dear - just seen the weather forecast - you might want to look a little
further ahead - minus 5 is our maximum during the day until thursday this
week!