|
|
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
My '89 Mazda 626:
The recommended tires were 185/70-14. I replaced them with the same size. Acceleration was OK at best, and poor going up hills. Also, the amount of sidewall flex made for poor cornering. I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, a $29 "loss leader" from a regional tire place. One went flat last week, and I found a crack in the tread at the sidewall. NG... So, I had some 185/60-14s hanging around and had them mounted. WOW!!! The acceleration is amazing, even going uphill in 4th gear (I had to downshift to 3rd before...). Handling is 100% better, and the odometer is finally right (it was 5% off (-) before...) Any comments? I haven't been able to 'calibrate' the speedo yet. Even though the odometer was off before, the speedo was correct according to three different radar 'speed reminders' they put by the side of the road, and a couple of 'official' radar readings as well... ;) |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Did you use the same tire pressure?
On Sep 2, 10:05 pm, Hachiroku > wrote: > My '89 Mazda 626: > > The recommended tires were 185/70-14. I replaced them with the same size. > Acceleration was OK at best, and poor going up hills. Also, the amount of > sidewall flex made for poor cornering. > > I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, a $29 > "loss leader" from a regional tire place. One went flat last week, and I > found a crack in the tread at the sidewall. NG... > > So, I had some 185/60-14s hanging around and had them mounted. WOW!!! The > acceleration is amazing, even going uphill in 4th gear (I had to downshift > to 3rd before...). Handling is 100% better, and the odometer is finally > right (it was 5% off (-) before...) > > Any comments? I haven't been able to 'calibrate' the speedo yet. Even > though the odometer was off before, the speedo was correct according to > three different radar 'speed reminders' they put by the side of the road, > and a couple of 'official' radar readings as well... ;) |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
"Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message news:jZJCi.5630$NL2.5076@trndny04... > My '89 Mazda 626: > I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, I cringed when I saw these words, Hachi, because a tire is the last type of ANY product where it's a good idea to go on the cheap. Buy cheap motor oil, cheap beer, cheap underwear, and cheap laundry detergent, and though they may not be as good as the name brand, they'll get the job done, and most importantly, they won't kill you. Cheap tires can, have and will kill people. Buy day old bread, margarine instead of butter, and second hand shirts from Goodwill, but overpay for your tires. One blowout or tread separation at highway speed, and you won't have to worry about anything any more....ever. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 22:06:41 -0700, mack wrote:
> > "Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message > news:jZJCi.5630$NL2.5076@trndny04... >> My '89 Mazda 626: >> I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, > > I cringed when I saw these words, Hachi, because a tire is the last type > of ANY product where it's a good idea to go on the cheap. Buy cheap > motor oil, cheap beer, cheap underwear, and cheap laundry detergent, and > though they may not be as good as the name brand, they'll get the job > done, and most importantly, they won't kill you. Cheap tires can, have > and will kill people. > Buy day old bread, margarine instead of butter, and second hand shirts > from Goodwill, but overpay for your tires. One blowout or tread > separation at highway speed, and you won't have to worry about anything > any more....ever. I cringed when I bought them. And I was REALLY steamed when, one week after putting the cheapest "All Season" tires I could on what was to be a winter car, Sears put real, honest to goodness Winter Goodyears on sale in the same size for $35 each... |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:32:48 -0700, EdV wrote:
> Did you use the same tire pressure? Um, somewhat... The old tires were rated for 44 PSI, I kept them at ~40. These are rated for 35, and they are at 35. > > On Sep 2, 10:05 pm, Hachiroku > wrote: >> My '89 Mazda 626: >> >> The recommended tires were 185/70-14. I replaced them with the same >> size. Acceleration was OK at best, and poor going up hills. Also, the >> amount of sidewall flex made for poor cornering. >> >> I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, a $29 >> "loss leader" from a regional tire place. One went flat last week, and I >> found a crack in the tread at the sidewall. NG... >> >> So, I had some 185/60-14s hanging around and had them mounted. WOW!!! >> The acceleration is amazing, even going uphill in 4th gear (I had to >> downshift to 3rd before...). Handling is 100% better, and the odometer >> is finally right (it was 5% off (-) before...) >> >> Any comments? I haven't been able to 'calibrate' the speedo yet. Even >> though the odometer was off before, the speedo was correct according to >> three different radar 'speed reminders' they put by the side of the >> road, and a couple of 'official' radar readings as well... ;) |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 22:06:41 -0700, mack wrote: > > >>"Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message >>news:jZJCi.5630$NL2.5076@trndny04... >> >>>My '89 Mazda 626: >>>I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, >> >>I cringed when I saw these words, Hachi, because a tire is the last type >>of ANY product where it's a good idea to go on the cheap. Buy cheap >>motor oil, cheap beer, cheap underwear, and cheap laundry detergent, and >>though they may not be as good as the name brand, they'll get the job >>done, and most importantly, they won't kill you. Cheap tires can, have >>and will kill people. >>Buy day old bread, margarine instead of butter, and second hand shirts >>from Goodwill, but overpay for your tires. One blowout or tread >>separation at highway speed, and you won't have to worry about anything >>any more....ever. > > > I cringed when I bought them. > > And I was REALLY steamed when, one week after putting the cheapest "All > Season" tires I could on what was to be a winter car, Sears put real, > honest to goodness Winter Goodyears on sale in the same size for $35 each... > Why? They likely weren't any better than what you bought. nate (not a big fan of Goodyear tires) -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message ... > Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: >> Winter Goodyears on sale in the same size for $35 each... >> > > Why? They likely weren't any better than what you bought. > > nate > > (not a big fan of Goodyear tires) I echo that sentiment, Nate. And $35 is pretty cheap, for any type of "skin". I wouldnt risk my life on that sort of rubber |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <Z3QCi.2457$es2.868@trndny09>... > On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:32:48 -0700, EdV wrote: > > > Did you use the same tire pressure? > > Um, somewhat... > > The old tires were rated for 44 PSI, I kept them at ~40. > > These are rated for 35, and they are at 35. > > > Given the size tire you're talking about, I would tend to believe that you are running them WAY overinflated for the size car they are mounted on. No wonder they don't feel right! Try running them at the car manufacturer's recommended pressures. BTW - The figure on the tire sidewall isn't the tire pressure "rating". It is the MAXIMUM pressure to be used when subjecting the tire to its MAXIMUM loads. Normal, every day tire pressures are usually quite a bit lower. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:06:30 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote:
> Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: >> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 22:06:41 -0700, mack wrote: >> >> >>>"Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message >>>news:jZJCi.5630$NL2.5076@trndny04... >>> >>>>My '89 Mazda 626: >>>>I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, >>> >>>I cringed when I saw these words, Hachi, because a tire is the last type >>>of ANY product where it's a good idea to go on the cheap. Buy cheap >>>motor oil, cheap beer, cheap underwear, and cheap laundry detergent, and >>>though they may not be as good as the name brand, they'll get the job >>>done, and most importantly, they won't kill you. Cheap tires can, have >>>and will kill people. >>>Buy day old bread, margarine instead of butter, and second hand shirts >>>from Goodwill, but overpay for your tires. One blowout or tread >>>separation at highway speed, and you won't have to worry about anything >>>any more....ever. >> >> >> I cringed when I bought them. >> >> And I was REALLY steamed when, one week after putting the cheapest "All >> Season" tires I could on what was to be a winter car, Sears put real, >> honest to goodness Winter Goodyears on sale in the same size for $35 >> each... >> >> > Why? They likely weren't any better than what you bought. > > nate > > (not a big fan of Goodyear tires) It turns out these are Mastercraft tires...made in China http://www.mastercrafttires.com/us/e...assenger+Tires But I would have still rather had Goodyear. They probably came with a better warranty. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:32:05 -0500, * wrote:
> > > Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <Z3QCi.2457$es2.868@trndny09>... >> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:32:48 -0700, EdV wrote: >> >> > Did you use the same tire pressure? >> >> Um, somewhat... >> >> The old tires were rated for 44 PSI, I kept them at ~40. >> >> These are rated for 35, and they are at 35. >> >> >> >> > > > Given the size tire you're talking about, I would tend to believe that you > are running them WAY overinflated for the size car they are mounted on. No > wonder they don't feel right! > > Try running them at the car manufacturer's recommended pressures. > > BTW - The figure on the tire sidewall isn't the tire pressure "rating". It > is the MAXIMUM pressure to be used when subjecting the tire to its MAXIMUM > loads. > > Normal, every day tire pressures are usually quite a bit lower. I always run my tires at or near full rated pressure. Have been for years! I have never had any serious tire issues, and I get an extra mile or two per gallon. I don't mind the ride (actually, I like the 'seat of the pants' feel from fully inflated tires...) I have had a couple sets of the tires I put on the Mazda, Akuret Performance, made by Ohtsu in Japan. Very good tire. I have always run them at max pressure, and have had no problems with them! |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote:
> My '89 Mazda 626: > > The recommended tires were 185/70-14. I replaced them with the same size. > Acceleration was OK at best, and poor going up hills. Also, the amount of > sidewall flex made for poor cornering. > > I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, a $29 > "loss leader" from a regional tire place. One went flat last week, and I > found a crack in the tread at the sidewall. NG... > > So, I had some 185/60-14s hanging around and had them mounted. WOW!!! The > acceleration is amazing, even going uphill in 4th gear (I had to downshift > to 3rd before...). Handling is 100% better, and the odometer is finally > right (it was 5% off (-) before...) That change in size shouldn't make any significant difference in acceleration. Simply not enough diameter change to affect the ratio much. Yes, the odometer will see the change, but not the "seat of the pants" or "assometer." Based on your other post, I think you were running the previous tires GROSSLY over-inflated. 40 PSI on a light vehicle is ridiculous. Go with whatever the placard on the vehicle says, ignore the "maximum pressure" ratings on the tire. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 10:14:27 -0500, Steve wrote:
> Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: > >> My '89 Mazda 626: >> >> The recommended tires were 185/70-14. I replaced them with the same >> size. Acceleration was OK at best, and poor going up hills. Also, the >> amount of sidewall flex made for poor cornering. >> >> I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, a $29 >> "loss leader" from a regional tire place. One went flat last week, and I >> found a crack in the tread at the sidewall. NG... >> >> So, I had some 185/60-14s hanging around and had them mounted. WOW!!! >> The acceleration is amazing, even going uphill in 4th gear (I had to >> downshift to 3rd before...). Handling is 100% better, and the odometer >> is finally right (it was 5% off (-) before...) > > > That change in size shouldn't make any significant difference in > acceleration. Simply not enough diameter change to affect the ratio much. > Yes, the odometer will see the change, but not the "seat of the pants" or > "assometer." > > Based on your other post, I think you were running the previous tires > GROSSLY over-inflated. 40 PSI on a light vehicle is ridiculous. Go with > whatever the placard on the vehicle says, ignore the "maximum pressure" > ratings on the tire. There is a real, noticable difference. It's like a different car. Last night I even accelerated up a hill in 5th gear. There are a couple hills I was unable to drive up in 4th gear because of the curves, and had to shift to 3rd to gather momentum to get up the hill. I can take it in 4th no problem. Of course, because of the stiffer sidewall, I can get into the corner a bit faster, too. The difference is amazing. Also, I use this car for a job, and I have to pay for fuel, so I want all the mileage I can get. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
=?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= > wrote:
>My '89 Mazda 626: > >The recommended tires were 185/70-14. I replaced them with the same size. >Acceleration was OK at best, and poor going up hills. Also, the amount of >sidewall flex made for poor cornering. > >I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, a $29 >"loss leader" from a regional tire place. One went flat last week, and I >found a crack in the tread at the sidewall. NG... Okay, so you bought lousy tires, and you noticed the handling was poor and the didn't last long. >So, I had some 185/60-14s hanging around and had them mounted. WOW!!! The >acceleration is amazing, even going uphill in 4th gear (I had to downshift >to 3rd before...). Handling is 100% better, and the odometer is finally >right (it was 5% off (-) before...) So you noticed that even with the incorrect tires on the car, good quality tires perform a whole lot better than $29 specials. >Any comments? I haven't been able to 'calibrate' the speedo yet. Even >though the odometer was off before, the speedo was correct according to >three different radar 'speed reminders' they put by the side of the road, >and a couple of 'official' radar readings as well... ;) I think your differences have a lot more to do with the quality of the tires than with the tire size. Tire size makes some difference, sure. But lousy tires are just lousy. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 10:14:27 -0500, Steve wrote: > >> Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: >> >>> My '89 Mazda 626: >>> >>> The recommended tires were 185/70-14. I replaced them with the same >>> size. Acceleration was OK at best, and poor going up hills. Also, the >>> amount of sidewall flex made for poor cornering. >>> >>> I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, a $29 >>> "loss leader" from a regional tire place. One went flat last week, and I >>> found a crack in the tread at the sidewall. NG... >>> >>> So, I had some 185/60-14s hanging around and had them mounted. WOW!!! >>> The acceleration is amazing, even going uphill in 4th gear (I had to >>> downshift to 3rd before...). Handling is 100% better, and the odometer >>> is finally right (it was 5% off (-) before...) >> >> That change in size shouldn't make any significant difference in >> acceleration. Simply not enough diameter change to affect the ratio much. >> Yes, the odometer will see the change, but not the "seat of the pants" or >> "assometer." >> >> Based on your other post, I think you were running the previous tires >> GROSSLY over-inflated. 40 PSI on a light vehicle is ridiculous. Go with >> whatever the placard on the vehicle says, ignore the "maximum pressure" >> ratings on the tire. > > > There is a real, noticable difference. It's like a different car. Last > night I even accelerated up a hill in 5th gear. There are a couple hills I > was unable to drive up in 4th gear because of the curves, and had to shift > to 3rd to gather momentum to get up the hill. I can take it in 4th no > problem. Of course, because of the stiffer sidewall, I can get into the > corner a bit faster, too. > > The difference is amazing. Also, I use this car for a job, and I have to > pay for fuel, so I want all the mileage I can get. > Well lets see, you had tire failures due to the higher air pressure in the new tires, but that didn't teach you to lower it. Maybe the head on crash from the poor contact patch on these tires will do it. The tire sidewall pressure is the MAXIMUM that tire can withstand NOT the pressure you run them at. You get sidewall splits, increased tread wear in the center, less resistance to tire damage, easier puncture damage (and usually worse damage due to the higher pressure), Less braking ability, poor cornering in the rain (if you can even turn with the reduced tire contact). Wait till you hit a wet spot and try to brake.. Slip Slidin' Away are not just song lyrics. Oh and if you believe that the extra air pressure saves you more gas over the cost of replacing the tires, I have this neat tornado gizmo and a couple magnets for you as well... And another small item, The speedo and the odometer operate from the SAME drive gear. If one is wrong they BOTH are wrong. -- Steve W. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 13:35:27 -0400, Steve W. wrote:
> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote: >> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 10:14:27 -0500, Steve wrote: >> >>> Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: >>> >>>> My '89 Mazda 626: >>>> >>>> The recommended tires were 185/70-14. I replaced them with the same >>>> size. Acceleration was OK at best, and poor going up hills. Also, the >>>> amount of sidewall flex made for poor cornering. >>>> >>>> I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, a >>>> $29 "loss leader" from a regional tire place. One went flat last week, >>>> and I found a crack in the tread at the sidewall. NG... >>>> >>>> So, I had some 185/60-14s hanging around and had them mounted. WOW!!! >>>> The acceleration is amazing, even going uphill in 4th gear (I had to >>>> downshift to 3rd before...). Handling is 100% better, and the odometer >>>> is finally right (it was 5% off (-) before...) >>> >>> That change in size shouldn't make any significant difference in >>> acceleration. Simply not enough diameter change to affect the ratio >>> much. Yes, the odometer will see the change, but not the "seat of the >>> pants" or "assometer." >>> >>> Based on your other post, I think you were running the previous tires >>> GROSSLY over-inflated. 40 PSI on a light vehicle is ridiculous. Go with >>> whatever the placard on the vehicle says, ignore the "maximum pressure" >>> ratings on the tire. >> >> >> There is a real, noticable difference. It's like a different car. Last >> night I even accelerated up a hill in 5th gear. There are a couple hills >> I was unable to drive up in 4th gear because of the curves, and had to >> shift to 3rd to gather momentum to get up the hill. I can take it in 4th >> no problem. Of course, because of the stiffer sidewall, I can get into >> the corner a bit faster, too. >> >> The difference is amazing. Also, I use this car for a job, and I have to >> pay for fuel, so I want all the mileage I can get. >> >> > Well lets see, you had tire failures due to the higher air pressure in the > new tires, but that didn't teach you to lower it. Maybe the head on crash > from the poor contact patch on these tires will do it. All four tires are firmly planted on the ground. As a matter of fact, they *look* like they need *MORE* air! > > The tire sidewall pressure is the MAXIMUM that tire can withstand NOT the > pressure you run them at. You get sidewall splits, increased tread wear in > the center, less resistance to tire damage, easier puncture damage (and > usually worse damage due to the higher pressure), Less braking ability, > poor cornering in the rain (if you can even turn with the reduced tire > contact). > > Wait till you hit a wet spot and try to brake.. Slip Slidin' Away are > not just song lyrics. I like this one! > > Oh and if you believe that the extra air pressure saves you more gas over > the cost of replacing the tires, I have this neat tornado gizmo and a > couple magnets for you as well... I'll take it! Until one of the vanes breaks off and lodges in a valve... > > And another small item, The speedo and the odometer operate from the SAME > drive gear. If one is wrong they BOTH are wrong. Ya know, he's right. So, let's see. If my speedo was right, and the ODO was underreporting the mileage, then... |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
>> >>Well lets see, you had tire failures due to the higher air pressure in the >>new tires, but that didn't teach you to lower it. Maybe the head on crash >>from the poor contact patch on these tires will do it. > > > All four tires are firmly planted on the ground. As a matter of fact, they > *look* like they need *MORE* air! Bullsnot. The way a tire "looks" doesn't mean anything. Different tire designs may bulge a little more or less, but that has nothing to do with the actual contact patch, OR with the rolling resistance. You're not necessarily saving fuel by overinflating your tires. Poor cornering performance caused by overinflated tires scrubbing sideways costs fuel too. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Sep 3, 10:58 am, Hachiroku > wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:06:30 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote: > > Hachiroku wrote: > >> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 22:06:41 -0700, mack wrote: > > >>>"Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message > >>>news:jZJCi.5630$NL2.5076@trndny04... > > >>>>My '89 Mazda 626: > >>>>I replaced the original tires with the cheapest ones I could find, > > >>>I cringed when I saw these words, Hachi, because a tire is the last type > >>>of ANY product where it's a good idea to go on the cheap. Buy cheap > >>>motor oil, cheap beer, cheap underwear, and cheap laundry detergent, and > >>>though they may not be as good as the name brand, they'll get the job > >>>done, and most importantly, they won't kill you. Cheap tires can, have > >>>and will kill people. > >>>Buy day old bread, margarine instead of butter, and second hand shirts > >>>from Goodwill, but overpay for your tires. One blowout or tread > >>>separation at highway speed, and you won't have to worry about anything > >>>any more....ever. > > >> I cringed when I bought them. > > >> And I was REALLY steamed when, one week after putting the cheapest "All > >> Season" tires I could on what was to be a winter car, Sears put real, > >> honest to goodness Winter Goodyears on sale in the same size for $35 > >> each... > > > Why? They likely weren't any better than what you bought. > > > nate > > > (not a big fan of Goodyear tires) > > It turns out these are Mastercraft tires...made in China > > http://www.mastercrafttires.com/us/e...p?ProdType=Pas... > > But I would have still rather had Goodyear. They probably came with a > better warranty. That may as well be, but the Goodyear "Integrity" on my company car are about the worst tires I have ever driven on. The Continental all- seasons that came stock on my '02 GTI were pretty bad, but I think these are actually worse. Either that, or the Impala's suspension geometry just sucks. nate |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
"hls" > wrote:
"Nate Nagel" > wrote: >Hachiroku wrote: >> Why? They likely weren't any better than what you bought. >> (not a big fan of Goodyear tires) > > I echo that sentiment That's a bad generalization. Every manufacturer has both good and bad tires. The Goodyear Integrity that came on my Toyota were crap. The collective wisdom of tirerack.com rates them near the bottom. The Goodyear Fortera TripleTred that I replaced them with are great. tirerack rates them number one among highway all season. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
ll > wrote:
> >The Goodyear Integrity that came on my Toyota were crap. >The collective wisdom of tirerack.com rates them near the >bottom. Agreed. >The Goodyear Fortera TripleTred that I replaced them with are >great. >tirerack rates them number one among highway all season. I rather like them, but they don't deal as well with wet pavement as the old Aquatreads do. They don't have problem on grooved pavement the way the Aquatreads did, but I tried them after the Aquatreads were discontinued and wasn't all that impressed with overall handling and wet-weather performance. The Aquatreads were wonderful. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
I suspect you must be joking. First of all 44 psi is the maximum tire
preassure not what you should use. Buying the cheapest tire you can find? Either this is some troll bs or you are to dumb to drive a car. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> ll > wrote: >> >>The Goodyear Integrity that came on my Toyota were crap. >>The collective wisdom of tirerack.com rates them near the >>bottom. > > Agreed. > >>The Goodyear Fortera TripleTred that I replaced them with are >>great. >>tirerack rates them number one among highway all season. > > I rather like them, but they don't deal as well with wet pavement as > the old Aquatreads do. They don't have problem on grooved pavement the > way the Aquatreads did, but I tried them after the Aquatreads were > discontinued and wasn't all that impressed with overall handling and > wet-weather performance. The Aquatreads were wonderful. Never drove 'em but heard they were lousy on braking performance. Personally, I love love love my Assurance TripleTreds. -- If you really believe carbon dioxide causes global warming, you should stop exhaling. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:00:14 -0500, clifto > wrote:
> If you really believe carbon dioxide causes global warming, > you should stop exhaling. LOL....so true!!!!!!!!!! -- Scott in Florida About all I can say for the United States Senate is that it opens with a prayer and closes with an investigation. Will Rogers (1879 - 1935) |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:00:14 -0500, clifto wrote:
> If you really believe carbon dioxide causes global warming, > you should stop exhaling. BWahahaha! Send this to Al, would ya? |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <TlVCi.5748$NL2.4904@trndny04>... > On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:32:05 -0500, * wrote: > > > > > > > Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <Z3QCi.2457$es2.868@trndny09>... > >> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:32:48 -0700, EdV wrote: > >> > >> > Did you use the same tire pressure? > >> > >> Um, somewhat... > >> > >> The old tires were rated for 44 PSI, I kept them at ~40. > >> > >> These are rated for 35, and they are at 35. > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Given the size tire you're talking about, I would tend to believe that you > > are running them WAY overinflated for the size car they are mounted on. No > > wonder they don't feel right! > > > > Try running them at the car manufacturer's recommended pressures. > > > > BTW - The figure on the tire sidewall isn't the tire pressure "rating". It > > is the MAXIMUM pressure to be used when subjecting the tire to its MAXIMUM > > loads. > > > > Normal, every day tire pressures are usually quite a bit lower. > > > I always run my tires at or near full rated pressure. Have been for years! > I have never had any serious tire issues, and I get an extra mile or two > per gallon. I don't mind the ride (actually, I like the 'seat of the > pants' feel from fully inflated tires...) > > I have had a couple sets of the tires I put on the Mazda, Akuret > Performance, made by Ohtsu in Japan. Very good tire. I have always run > them at max pressure, and have had no problems with them! > > > Just because you have "always done something" doesn't make it right. You've just gotten away with it in the past. Perhaps it is biting you in the ass this time around. You have NOT had "no problems".....just none that your inexperience has ever detected. You asked for advice. I gave you advice based on 40 years' experience. You choose to ignore it - which is your prerogative. But, not only do you choose to ignore it, you choose to argue about it. Have a nice day!!.......................asshole! |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <PmYCi.3673$pm2.3263@trndny08>... I suspect you are in for a truly rude awakening some day. What you learn AFTER you know it all is what REALLY matters......... |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Sep 5, 5:50 am, "*" > wrote:
> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <PmYCi.3673$pm2.3263@trndny08>... > > I suspect you are in for a truly rude awakening some day. > > What you learn AFTER you know it all is what REALLY matters......... Someone needs to ban this guy ("*"), all he does is go around making rude comments and namecalling. It's incredible how his opinion is the only one that is valid in any situation. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
|
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:50:16 -0500, * wrote:
> > > Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <PmYCi.3673$pm2.3263@trndny08>... > > I suspect you are in for a truly rude awakening some day. > > What you learn AFTER you know it all is what REALLY matters......... That didn't tell me a whole lot. I was looking for insight, not come-uppance... |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:45:27 -0500, * wrote:
> > > Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <TlVCi.5748$NL2.4904@trndny04>... >> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:32:05 -0500, * wrote: >> >> >> > >> > Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article > <Z3QCi.2457$es2.868@trndny09>... >> >> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:32:48 -0700, EdV wrote: >> >> >> >> > Did you use the same tire pressure? >> >> >> >> Um, somewhat... >> >> >> >> The old tires were rated for 44 PSI, I kept them at ~40. >> >> >> >> These are rated for 35, and they are at 35. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > Given the size tire you're talking about, I would tend to believe that > you >> > are running them WAY overinflated for the size car they are mounted >> > on. > No >> > wonder they don't feel right! >> > >> > Try running them at the car manufacturer's recommended pressures. >> > >> > BTW - The figure on the tire sidewall isn't the tire pressure >> > "rating". > It >> > is the MAXIMUM pressure to be used when subjecting the tire to its > MAXIMUM >> > loads. >> > >> > Normal, every day tire pressures are usually quite a bit lower. >> >> >> I always run my tires at or near full rated pressure. Have been for > years! >> I have never had any serious tire issues, and I get an extra mile or two >> per gallon. I don't mind the ride (actually, I like the 'seat of the >> pants' feel from fully inflated tires...) >> >> I have had a couple sets of the tires I put on the Mazda, Akuret >> Performance, made by Ohtsu in Japan. Very good tire. I have always run >> them at max pressure, and have had no problems with them! >> >> >> >> > > Just because you have "always done something" doesn't make it right. > You've just gotten away with it in the past. Perhaps it is biting you in > the ass this time around. Always is 30 years. > > You have NOT had "no problems".....just none that your inexperience has > ever detected. Hmmmm...one set of 'overinflated' tires with 125,000 miles on them... Another with 85,000 miles... Another with 65,000 miles... And another with 90,000 miles... Anything froom Goodyears to Bridgestone to Delta. I think the problem was really getting the cheapest tire I could. > > You asked for advice. > > I gave you advice based on 40 years' experience. I've been farting around with tires for 30 years, and using different sizes for different effects for 20. I make sure they fit the rims correctly. I try to make sure they're within a certain percentage of OEM spec. I onspect them myself weekly, I look at them before I start the car every day, and I have them looked at 'professionally' every three months. The tire company I got to is top notch. If they wouldn't work on this car, Chick would have not put them on. > > You choose to ignore it - which is your prerogative. > > But, not only do you choose to ignore it, you choose to argue about it. I'm not 'arguing' about anything. Only someone who is overly aggressive and too 'self-aware' would see it as anything else. Generally agumentative himself. > > > Have a nice day!!.......................asshole! And my point is proven. Looking in the mirror again, hmmm...? Oh, say hello to my little PLONK file. Non-comments aren't welcome. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <fqJDi.6122$es2.476@trndny09>... > On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:50:16 -0500, * wrote: > > > > > > > Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <PmYCi.3673$pm2.3263@trndny08>... > > > > I suspect you are in for a truly rude awakening some day. > > > > What you learn AFTER you know it all is what REALLY matters......... > > > That didn't tell me a whole lot. I was looking for insight, not > come-uppance... > > > Actually were you paying attention, that told you a LOT! It is rapidly becoming apparent that there's not a lot of sense in telling you anything.....or giving you conventional automotive advice. You've already been given some great advice by a number of different posters, and you refuse to accept it. You are not looking for insight, as you claim. You are, actually, seeking validation of your unconventional and off-the-wall ideas - such as running tires at maximum load inflations - which doesn't seem to be forthcoming. Some people tire quickly of giving honest advice, only to have it summarily rejected.....explaining why you are receiving so little "insight" now. You were given "insight" and you rejected it. The people who offered advice have moved on to other areas where they won't be insulted for offering honest advice. Personally, I suspect you are simply playing some sort of trolling game to pass the time instead of getting actively involved in hands-on automotive service and repair......... |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <5xJDi.16505$453.7660@trndny02>...
> On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:45:27 -0500, * wrote: > > > > > You asked for advice. > > > > I gave you advice based on 40 years' experience. > > > I've been farting around with tires for 30 years, > Do you have a tire dynamometer? Is it static or dynamic? I currently own a static tire dyno, and I'm designing and building a dynamic one. Do you even know what a tire dyno is? I've been working with racing tires for over 40 years, and I currently use a tire dyno and a shock absorber dyno on a daily basis. Since "....farting around...." with tires for 30 years has given you so much insight and technical knowledge, please....... Tell me about your tire's actual footprint at different inflations. Tell me about your tire's spring rate at different inflations. Tell me about your tire's sidewall stiffness ratings. Can't do it without a tire dyno, and I seriously doubt if you have one.....and, your daily tire kick doesn't even come close. > and using different > sizes for different effects for 20. > Tell me about the "effects" you have obtained by using different tire sizes. Stagger? Crossweight? Corner weights? Etc.? What sort of circumference variances are you talking about? > I make sure they fit the rims correctly. With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim incorrectly? > I try to make sure they're within a certain percentage of OEM spec. > Please explain how you come up with "....a certain percentage of OEM spec."..... .......and, exactly what percentage is acceptable to you? I'm sure others would be interested in hearing how they can apply your hard-earned knowledge to their own cars. I REALLY want to hear about that, too! |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:07:04 -0500, * wrote:
> You are, actually, seeking validation of your unconventional and > off-the-wall ideas - such as running tires at maximum load inflations - > which doesn't seem to be forthcoming. Yup. But I'm more intersted in the tire size on this car than tire inflation. I sometimes carry heavy loads with this car, and would rather just leave the tires close to max pressure than filling/deflating/filling/deflating etc. Like I said, I've been doing it a long time with no ill effects. > > Some people tire quickly of giving honest advice, only to have it > summarily rejected.....explaining why you are receiving so little > "insight" now. I don't 'summarily reject' anything. I take everything into account. I am going to let a few pounds out and see if it makes a difference once I get a free minute... |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:32:34 -0500, * wrote:
>> I make sure they fit the rims correctly. > > With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim > incorrectly? And you're telling me you're an 'expert?!?!?! Toyo Proxes T1r 195/45R14 15Lbs. 280 Treadwear MP V Rated Tread Depth 10 Rim Width (Min/Max) 6 - 7.5 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Toyo Proxes Tpt 185/60R14 16Lbs. Rim Width (Min/Max) 5 - 6.5 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you tried to put the first tire on the rim meant for the second tire, the sidewall would blowout. A real recipe for disaster. If you don't know this, then NO WAY are you telling me what to do with my tires!!! So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels off my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim... |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:32:34 -0500, * wrote: > >>> I make sure they fit the rims correctly. >> With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim >> incorrectly? > > > And you're telling me you're an 'expert?!?!?! > > > > Toyo Proxes T1r > 195/45R14 > 15Lbs. > 280 Treadwear > MP > V Rated > Tread Depth 10 > Rim Width (Min/Max) 6 - 7.5 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > Toyo Proxes Tpt > 185/60R14 > 16Lbs. > Rim Width (Min/Max) 5 - 6.5 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > If you tried to put the first tire on the rim meant for the second tire, > the sidewall would blowout. A real recipe for disaster. > > If you don't know this, then NO WAY are you telling me what to do with my > tires!!! > > So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels off > my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the > sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim... > > Nope. They would both fit on the 6.5" rims you have. And the only real problem with running them on the 5.5 would be tread wear due to the narrow rim.. However I wouldn't want to run the 185/60 on the wider rim. No sidewall protection and you would probably have problems with the bead staying seated as well. -- Steve W. Near Cooperstown, New York |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <HP2Ei.16866$453.2177@trndny02>... > On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:32:34 -0500, * wrote: > > >> I make sure they fit the rims correctly. > > > > With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim > > incorrectly? > > > And you're telling me you're an 'expert?!?!?! > > > > Toyo Proxes T1r > 195/45R14 > 15Lbs. > 280 Treadwear > MP > V Rated > Tread Depth 10 > Rim Width (Min/Max) 6 - 7.5 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > Toyo Proxes Tpt > 185/60R14 > 16Lbs. > Rim Width (Min/Max) 5 - 6.5 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > If you tried to put the first tire on the rim meant for the second tire, > the sidewall would blowout. A real recipe for disaster. > > If you don't know this, then NO WAY are you telling me what to do with my > tires!!! > > So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels off > my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the > sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim... > > > Well, so much for the integrity/validity of your "PLONK!" Your statement was, "I make sure they fit the rims correctly."....... .........NOT, "I make sure the correct-width rims have been selected for use." From your original statement, one would have to assume that you had already chosen the correct rims, and that you were saying, "I make sure they fit the rims (that I have selected) correctly." Now, could you please answer the rest of the questions I asked? I'm REALLY curious about the part where you say, "I've been farting around with tires for 30 years, and using different sizes for different effects for 20." As I asked before, exactly what sort of "effects" have you experienced/observed using different tire sizes? And, I repeat...... Since "....farting around...." with tires for 30 years has given you so much insight and technical knowledge, please....... Tell me about your tire's actual footprint at different inflations. Tell me about your tire's spring rate at different inflations. Tell me about your tire's sidewall stiffness ratings. Can't do it without a tire dyno, and I seriously doubt if you have one.....and, your daily tire kick doesn't even come close. > and using different > sizes for different effects for 20. > Tell me about the "effects" you have obtained by using different tire sizes. Stagger? Crossweight? Corner weights? Etc.? What sort of circumference variances are you talking about? Now, don't go and "PLONK!" me, again....... We all now know that your "PLONK!" statements aren't worth the electrons used to display them. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <HP2Ei.16866$453.2177@trndny02>... > On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:32:34 -0500, * wrote: > > >> I make sure they fit the rims correctly. > > > > With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim > > incorrectly? > > > And you're telling me you're an 'expert?!?!?! > > > > Toyo Proxes T1r > 195/45R14 > 15Lbs. > 280 Treadwear > MP > V Rated > Tread Depth 10 > Rim Width (Min/Max) 6 - 7.5 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > Toyo Proxes Tpt > 185/60R14 > 16Lbs. > Rim Width (Min/Max) 5 - 6.5 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > If you tried to put the first tire on the rim meant for the second tire, > the sidewall would blowout. A real recipe for disaster. > > If you don't know this, then NO WAY are you telling me what to do with my > tires!!! > > So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels off > my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the > sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim... > > > In spite of all your horse schidt, here is one undeniable fact...... A tire supporting a 500 pound load will have a footprint of 20 square-inches at an inflation pressure of 25 p.s.i. and a footprint of 12.5 square-inches at 40 p.s.i. inflation. That's simple high school math and physics. The ONLY differences between the footprints of a "narrow" tire versus a "wide" tire is the SHAPE of the footprint. They BOTH require the same-sized footprint to support the same load at the same inflation pressures. With the 20 square-inch example, a ten-inch-wide tread will have a footprint that is ten-inches wide by two-inches long while a five-inch tread would have a footprint that is five-inches wide by four-inches long. With 25 pounds of air pressure, you need 20 square-inches to support 500 pounds.....one way or another. By running your tires at maximum inflation, you are running the car at 62.5 percent of the tire footprint that the car manufacturer has designed the suspension to work with. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On 9/7/07 8:55 AM, in article 01c7f156$151493a0$f192c3d8@race, "*" > wrote: > > > Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <HP2Ei.16866$453.2177@trndny02>... >> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:32:34 -0500, * wrote: >> >>>> I make sure they fit the rims correctly. >>> >>> With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim >>> incorrectly? >> >> >> And you're telling me you're an 'expert?!?!?! >> >> >> >> Toyo Proxes T1r >> 195/45R14 >> 15Lbs. >> 280 Treadwear >> MP >> V Rated >> Tread Depth 10 >> Rim Width (Min/Max) 6 - 7.5 >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> >> >> >> Toyo Proxes Tpt >> 185/60R14 >> 16Lbs. >> Rim Width (Min/Max) 5 - 6.5 >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> >> >> If you tried to put the first tire on the rim meant for the second tire, >> the sidewall would blowout. A real recipe for disaster. >> >> If you don't know this, then NO WAY are you telling me what to do with my >> tires!!! >> >> So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels > off >> my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the >> sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim... >> >> >> > > > > In spite of all your horse schidt, here is one undeniable fact...... > > > A tire supporting a 500 pound load will have a footprint of 20 > square-inches at an inflation pressure of 25 p.s.i. and a footprint of 12.5 > square-inches at 40 p.s.i. inflation. That's simple high school math and > physics. > > The ONLY differences between the footprints of a "narrow" tire versus a > "wide" tire is the SHAPE of the footprint. They BOTH require the same-sized > footprint to support the same load at the same inflation pressures. > > With the 20 square-inch example, a ten-inch-wide tread will have a > footprint that is ten-inches wide by two-inches long while a five-inch > tread would have a footprint that is five-inches wide by four-inches long. > > With 25 pounds of air pressure, you need 20 square-inches to support 500 > pounds.....one way or another. > > By running your tires at maximum inflation, you are running the car at 62.5 > percent of the tire footprint that the car manufacturer has designed the > suspension to work with. > > > Undeniable fact?? Usually the stuff you put out is more or less correct (bravado and SOB-ness not withstanding), but I need to see a legit reference for this one. |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 23:13:59 +0000, E Meyer wrote:
> > > > On 9/7/07 8:55 AM, in article 01c7f156$151493a0$f192c3d8@race, "*" > > wrote: > > >> >> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article >> <HP2Ei.16866$453.2177@trndny02>... >>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:32:34 -0500, * wrote: >>> >>>>> I make sure they fit the rims correctly. >>>> >>>> With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim >>>> incorrectly? >>> >>> >>> And you're telling me you're an 'expert?!?!?! >>> >>> >>> >>> Toyo Proxes T1r >>> 195/45R14 >>> 15Lbs. >>> 280 Treadwear >>> MP >>> V Rated >>> Tread Depth 10 >>> Rim Width (Min/Max) 6 - 7.5 >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Toyo Proxes Tpt >>> 185/60R14 >>> 16Lbs. >>> Rim Width (Min/Max) 5 - 6.5 >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>> >>> >>> >>> If you tried to put the first tire on the rim meant for the second >>> tire, the sidewall would blowout. A real recipe for disaster. >>> >>> If you don't know this, then NO WAY are you telling me what to do with >>> my tires!!! >>> >>> So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels >> off >>> my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the >>> sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim... >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> In spite of all your horse schidt, here is one undeniable fact...... >> >> >> A tire supporting a 500 pound load will have a footprint of 20 >> square-inches at an inflation pressure of 25 p.s.i. and a footprint of >> 12.5 square-inches at 40 p.s.i. inflation. That's simple high school >> math and physics. >> >> The ONLY differences between the footprints of a "narrow" tire versus a >> "wide" tire is the SHAPE of the footprint. They BOTH require the >> same-sized footprint to support the same load at the same inflation >> pressures. >> >> With the 20 square-inch example, a ten-inch-wide tread will have a >> footprint that is ten-inches wide by two-inches long while a five-inch >> tread would have a footprint that is five-inches wide by four-inches >> long. >> >> With 25 pounds of air pressure, you need 20 square-inches to support 500 >> pounds.....one way or another. >> >> By running your tires at maximum inflation, you are running the car at >> 62.5 percent of the tire footprint that the car manufacturer has >> designed the suspension to work with. >> >> >> >> > Undeniable fact?? Usually the stuff you put out is more or less correct > (bravado and SOB-ness not withstanding), but I need to see a legit > reference for this one. I also want to see what's Horse Schidt about a manufacturer's recommendation for rim widths. I'll take their word first... |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:18:06 -0500, * wrote:
>> >> So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels > off >> my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the >> sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim... >> >> >> >> > > Well, so much for the integrity/validity of your "PLONK!" Depends which system I'm using... |
OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:18:06 -0500, * wrote:
> Your statement was, "I make sure they fit the rims correctly."....... > > ........NOT, "I make sure the correct-width rims have been selected for > use." Huh? Talk about splitting RCH's... |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:30 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
AutoBanter.com