Left Turn Arrow w/o Left Turn Lane
 

While driving in our nation's capital yesterday, I saw a configuration that really seemed to make no
sense.

The signal cycle began with a left green-arrow (with a red ball) for both eastbound and westbound
traffic. However, the leftmost lane was marked for Straight OR Left. As a result, if the first car
in the left lane was not turning left (which he wasn't required to do), nobody moved during the left
green-arrow cycle. Once the left green-arrow went out and the green ball came on, that first car
proceeded and the line stopped when the first car that wanted to turn left got to the intersection
and waited for oncoming traffic.

It seems like left green-arrows are almost useless when there isn't a dedicated left-turn lane.
Does this really work out somehow? Am I missing something?

P.S. I found myself in DC as part of Great Race (www.greatrace.com), a 14-day cross-country driving
event from Washington (DC) to Washington (Tacoma).

Larry Scholnick wrote:
> While driving in our nation's capital yesterday, I saw a configuration that really seemed to make no
> sense.
>
> The signal cycle began with a left green-arrow (with a red ball) for both eastbound and westbound
> traffic. However, the leftmost lane was marked for Straight OR Left. As a result, if the first car
> in the left lane was not turning left (which he wasn't required to do), nobody moved during the left
> green-arrow cycle. Once the left green-arrow went out and the green ball came on, that first car
> proceeded and the line stopped when the first car that wanted to turn left got to the intersection
> and waited for oncoming traffic.
>
> It seems like left green-arrows are almost useless when there isn't a dedicated left-turn lane.
> Does this really work out somehow? Am I missing something?

Nope... where was this light? I don't think I've ever seen a turn arrow
where there wasn't a dedicated turn lane...

>
> P.S. I found myself in DC as part of Great Race (www.greatrace.com), a 14-day cross-country driving
> event from Washington (DC) to Washington (Tacoma).
>

Cool... I find myself in DC 'cause that's where I work :)

Only obviously Great-Race related car I spotted though was a '54
Studebaker... very nice... what's your ride if you don't mind me asking?

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote:
> Larry Scholnick wrote:
>> While driving in our nation's capital yesterday, I saw a configuration that really seemed to make
>> no sense.
>>
>> The signal cycle began with a left green-arrow (with a red ball) for both eastbound and westbound
>> traffic. However, the leftmost lane was marked for Straight OR Left. As a result, if the first
>> car in the left lane was not turning left (which he wasn't required to do), nobody moved during
>> the left green-arrow cycle. Once the left green-arrow went out and the green ball came on, that
>> first car proceeded and the line stopped when the first car that wanted to turn left got to the
>> intersection and waited for oncoming traffic.
>>
>> It seems like left green-arrows are almost useless when there isn't a dedicated left-turn lane.
>> Does this really work out somehow? Am I missing something?
>
> Nope... where was this light? I don't think I've ever seen a turn arrow where there wasn't a
> dedicated turn lane...

It was on the main drag after exiting eastbound I-66 at US 50; I think it was Constitution Avenue.
>
>>
>> P.S. I found myself in DC as part of Great Race (www.greatrace.com), a 14-day cross-country
>> driving event from Washington (DC) to Washington (Tacoma).
>
> Cool... I find myself in DC 'cause that's where I work :)
>
> Only obviously Great-Race related car I spotted though was a '54 Studebaker... very nice...
> what's your ride if you don't mind me asking?
>
> nate

I'm part of the organizing crew, driving a 2005 Ford Taurus (we don't get to drive the old cars).
If you go to DC today (Saturday), you'll see 100 classic cars lined up near the Capitol, ready to
leave at noon.

Larry Scholnick wrote:
> "Nate Nagel" wrote:
>
>>Larry Scholnick wrote:
>>
>>>While driving in our nation's capital yesterday, I saw a configuration that really seemed to make
>>>no sense.
>>>
>>>The signal cycle began with a left green-arrow (with a red ball) for both eastbound and westbound
>>>traffic. However, the leftmost lane was marked for Straight OR Left. As a result, if the first
>>>car in the left lane was not turning left (which he wasn't required to do), nobody moved during
>>>the left green-arrow cycle. Once the left green-arrow went out and the green ball came on, that
>>>first car proceeded and the line stopped when the first car that wanted to turn left got to the
>>>intersection and waited for oncoming traffic.
>>>
>>>It seems like left green-arrows are almost useless when there isn't a dedicated left-turn lane.
>>>Does this really work out somehow? Am I missing something?
>>
>>Nope... where was this light? I don't think I've ever seen a turn arrow where there wasn't a
>>dedicated turn lane...
>
>
> It was on the main drag after exiting eastbound I-66 at US 50; I think it was Constitution Avenue.
>
>>>P.S. I found myself in DC as part of Great Race (www.greatrace.com), a 14-day cross-country
>>>driving event from Washington (DC) to Washington (Tacoma).
>>
>>Cool... I find myself in DC 'cause that's where I work :)
>>
>>Only obviously Great-Race related car I spotted though was a '54 Studebaker... very nice...
>>what's your ride if you don't mind me asking?
>>
>>nate
>
>
> I'm part of the organizing crew, driving a 2005 Ford Taurus (we don't get to drive the old cars).
> If you go to DC today (Saturday), you'll see 100 classic cars lined up near the Capitol, ready to
> leave at noon.
>

Heh... not gonna happen. I just started a new job last Monday; I've
been logging about 100ish miles a day since then. You can't pay me
enough to drive back into the city today...!

nate


--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"Larry Scholnick" > wrote in message
m...
> It seems like left green-arrows are almost useless when there isn't a
> dedicated left-turn lane. Does this really work out somehow? Am I missing
> something?

There's a similar situation on a road near my house, but it is a right turn
arrow. Normally, it is a dedicated right turn lane. But during morning
rush hour, the right lane can also go straight. So you'll get the first car
wanting to go straight, and people behind that car wanting to turn right and
blowing their horn because they see the green arrow and no one is moving.

-=- Tom

Larry Scholnick wrote:
> While driving in our nation's capital yesterday, I saw a configuration that really seemed to make no
> sense.
>
> The signal cycle began with a left green-arrow (with a red ball) for both eastbound and westbound
> traffic. However, the leftmost lane was marked for Straight OR Left. As a result, if the first car
> in the left lane was not turning left (which he wasn't required to do), nobody moved during the left
> green-arrow cycle. Once the left green-arrow went out and the green ball came on, that first car
> proceeded and the line stopped when the first car that wanted to turn left got to the intersection
> and waited for oncoming traffic.
>
> It seems like left green-arrows are almost useless when there isn't a dedicated left-turn lane.
> Does this really work out somehow? Am I missing something?
>
> P.S. I found myself in DC as part of Great Race (www.greatrace.com), a 14-day cross-country driving
> event from Washington (DC) to Washington (Tacoma).

Such configurations are not unuasual. How do you expect people to make
left turns in congested traffic areas without it? They are usually
seen where the road width does not allow space for a dedicated left
turn lane. The locals where they do occur are well aware of them and
are quite tolerant of being blocked.

Harry K

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:37:43 GMT, "Larry Scholnick"
> wrote:

>The signal cycle began with a left green-arrow (with a red ball) for both eastbound and westbound
>traffic. However, the leftmost lane was marked for Straight OR Left. As a result, if the first car
>in the left lane was not turning left (which he wasn't required to do), nobody moved during the left
>green-arrow cycle. Once the left green-arrow went out and the green ball came on, that first car
>proceeded and the line stopped when the first car that wanted to turn left got to the intersection
>and waited for oncoming traffic.
>
>It seems like left green-arrows are almost useless when there isn't a dedicated left-turn lane.
>Does this really work out somehow? Am I missing something?

Normally, an intersection with this configuration will be programmed
to illuminate the green ball AND the left turn arrow at the same time
to avoid the obvious problem. Perhaps the one you saw does this also,
at least at some times.

Harry K wrote:
>
> Larry Scholnick wrote:
>
>>While driving in our nation's capital yesterday, I saw a configuration that really seemed to make no
>>sense.
>>
>>The signal cycle began with a left green-arrow (with a red ball) for both eastbound and westbound
>>traffic. However, the leftmost lane was marked for Straight OR Left. As a result, if the first car
>>in the left lane was not turning left (which he wasn't required to do), nobody moved during the left
>>green-arrow cycle. Once the left green-arrow went out and the green ball came on, that first car
>>proceeded and the line stopped when the first car that wanted to turn left got to the intersection
>>and waited for oncoming traffic.
>>
>>It seems like left green-arrows are almost useless when there isn't a dedicated left-turn lane.
>>Does this really work out somehow? Am I missing something?
>>
>>P.S. I found myself in DC as part of Great Race (www.greatrace.com), a 14-day cross-country driving
>>event from Washington (DC) to Washington (Tacoma).
>
>
> Such configurations are not unuasual. How do you expect people to make
> left turns in congested traffic areas without it? They are usually
> seen where the road width does not allow space for a dedicated left
> turn lane. The locals where they do occur are well aware of them and
> are quite tolerant of being blocked.
>
> Harry K
>

Actually when in DC for the most part I always try to stay in the middle
lane of whatever street I'm on unless I know I'm going to be turning
soon - you never know when the right lane might go turn-only, and you
never know when someone may be turning left in front of you. And yes
left turn lanes are rare in the city.

nate


--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Larry Scholnick wrote:
> While driving in our nation's capital yesterday, I saw a configuration that really seemed to make no
> sense.
>
> The signal cycle began with a left green-arrow (with a red ball) for both eastbound and westbound
> traffic. However, the leftmost lane was marked for Straight OR Left. As a result, if the first car
> in the left lane was not turning left (which he wasn't required to do), nobody moved during the left
> green-arrow cycle. Once the left green-arrow went out and the green ball came on, that first car
> proceeded and the line stopped when the first car that wanted to turn left got to the intersection
> and waited for oncoming traffic.
>
> It seems like left green-arrows are almost useless when there isn't a dedicated left-turn lane.
> Does this really work out somehow? Am I missing something?

The only times I've seen a left-arrow without a left turn lane are at
lights where traffic going straight and left (from ONE direction) get
the green at the same time.

Otherwise, as you say, the moron who designed the setup should be fired.

I've seen these here in NYC.
-------------
Alex