What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

What metric do you use to estimate remaining front brake pad life on a
typical economy sedan (assuming normal driving under normal conditions)?

A neighbor's kid was heading off to college where her mother asked me to
take a look at her vehicle, where I found a few things to warn them of
such as this rack and pinion steering boot badly torn for some reason:
<https://i.postimg.cc/L4GHNsQG/boot01.jpg>

I told her that I had never replaced steering boots before so I wasn't even
sure how to diagnose whether she needed just a boot or the whole rack:
<https://i.postimg.cc/s20Fxntb/boot02.jpg>

One of the things I simply noted was they had "x" miles left on their front
brake pads (where there is only one mechanical wear sensor per rotor):
<https://i.postimg.cc/gJB3fdFn/pads01.jpg>

If you look closely, the pad is about the thickness of the backing plate:
<https://i.postimg.cc/pXjK1g0L/pads02.jpg>

The owner asked me how many miles those pads had left under normal driving:
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrD3HTJK/pads03.jpg>

I wasn't sure, so I guessed wildly at roughly about 5 thousand miles to go:
<https://i.postimg.cc/q7NyVq0y/pads04.jpg>

But what metric do you use to estimate a pad's remaining life given only
the thickness of the front pads, and the fact that you are told the vehicle
is driven by a typical owner under typical driving on typical roads?
--
Usenet is great when people offer advice that you might not have known.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on atypical economy sedan?
 

On 7/30/2020 1:33 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> What metric do you use to estimate remaining front brake pad life on a
> typical economy sedan (assuming normal driving under normal conditions)?
>
> A neighbor's kid was heading off to college where her mother asked me to
> take a look at her vehicle, where I found a few things to warn them of
> such as this rack and pinion steering boot badly torn for some reason:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/L4GHNsQG/boot01.jpg>

>
> The owner asked me how many miles those pads had left under normal driving:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/nrD3HTJK/pads03.jpg>
>
> I wasn't sure, so I guessed wildly at roughly about 5 thousand miles to go:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/q7NyVq0y/pads04.jpg>
>
> But what metric do you use to estimate a pad's remaining life given only
> the thickness of the front pads, and the fact that you are told the vehicle
> is driven by a typical owner under typical driving on typical roads?
>

What is normal? Nothing a teenager does is normal.
What I use does not apply unless you are in the same situation.
When I lived in the city, it was a stretch to get 12 to 15,000 miles
from a set of pads. Stop sign on every corner, traffic lights on the
main streets, even the highway would have some stop and go at a couple
of spots.

When I moved to another state and did a lot of highway driving, I got
50,000 miles from pads.

You could measure them now and in 3000 miles to see how much wear and
make a decent calculation from that.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on atypical economy sedan?
 

On 07/30/2020 11:25 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/30/2020 1:33 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> What metric do you use to estimate remaining front brake pad life on a
>> typical economy sedan (assuming normal driving under normal conditions)?
>>
>> A neighbor's kid was heading off to college where her mother asked me to
>> take a look at her vehicle, where I found a few things to warn them of
>> such as this rack and pinion steering boot badly torn for some reason:
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/L4GHNsQG/boot01.jpg>
>
>>
>> The owner asked me how many miles those pads had left under normal driving:
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/nrD3HTJK/pads03.jpg>
>>
>> I wasn't sure, so I guessed wildly at roughly about 5 thousand miles to go:
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/q7NyVq0y/pads04.jpg>
>>
>> But what metric do you use to estimate a pad's remaining life given only
>> the thickness of the front pads, and the fact that you are told the vehicle
>> is driven by a typical owner under typical driving on typical roads?
>
> What is normal? Nothing a teenager does is normal.
> What I use does not apply unless you are in the same situation.
> When I lived in the city, it was a stretch to get 12 to 15,000 miles
> from a set of pads. Stop sign on every corner, traffic lights on the
> main streets, even the highway would have some stop and go at a couple
> of spots.
>
> When I moved to another state and did a lot of highway driving, I got
> 50,000 miles from pads.

I seem to remember 40K on the fronts and 80K on the rears.

> You could measure them now and in 3000 miles to see how much wear and
> make a decent calculation from that.

Don't they put those little metal squeakers on the pads any more? You
can tolerate the squeaking for a long time, the grinding for a shorter
time, and the hogging in for only a VERY short time. Don't ask me how I
know this.

--
Cheers, Bev
Little Mary took her skis upon the snow to frisk.
Wasn't she a silly girl her little * ?

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 11:43:59 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> I seem to remember 40K on the fronts and 80K on the rears.

Hi The Real Bev,

Thanks for that information about the front pads, which is what I seek.
o Personally, I get about one thousand miles per millimeter of pad

The goal is to get those who have done the calculation to help out with an
estimate of the number of miles per (whatever) thickness of pad, on
average, that others would get (as I drive on mountainous roads a lot).

People either know how many miles they get, or they don't know it.
o So I thank you for that datapoint of another average'ish driver,

If you get 40K per pad, and if new pads are, oh, hmmmm... how thick?
<https://i.postimg.cc/4NzSKGFr/pads05.jpg>

I happen to have a few sets of "Centric Premium Ceramic" pads lying around,
P/N 301.09080, marked "CEN30109080 31AC9101 GG 02 B19" (i.e., cold/hot
friction rating of G/G, which is a friction coefficient of 0.45-0.55)
<http://www.napbrake.com/2018/02/24/friction-coefficient-brake-pads/>

The backing plate is 6mm & the pad, brand new, is an additional 12mm:
<https://i.postimg.cc/DwnYLN9m/pads06.jpg>

At 40K miles, that's about 40,000miles/12mm = about 3K miles per pad mm.

Given the worn pads are about as thick as the backing plate, that's:
o 6mm times about 3K miles/mm = about 18,000 miles left on those pads

> Don't they put those little metal squeakers on the pads any more? You
> can tolerate the squeaking for a long time, the grinding for a shorter
> time, and the hogging in for only a VERY short time. Don't ask me how I
> know this.

This is what they come with, apparently:
<https://i.postimg.cc/4NzSKGFr/pads05.jpg>

Regarding not asking how you know this, I know that steel on steel has
almost the same cold/hot friction coefficient as many brake pads people buy
(e.g., EE pads) where I've seen rotors worn down to the ribs and the brakes
"still work".

You get three times the miles I get, where I get around one thousand miles
per millimeter of pad, or thereabouts, on my bimmer (OEM Textar/Jurid pads,
with cold/hot friction ratings of F/F), looking at my records, but I live
in hilly country, where people would likely get more on flat land.

If we don't get further data, an average of two thousand miles per
millimeter might be our starting point, in which case that's about twelve
thousand miles left on those worn pads.
--
Usenet is wonderful when everyone pitches in helpfully with knowledge.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

Arlen Holder > wrote:
>The goal is to get those who have done the calculation to help out with an
>estimate of the number of miles per (whatever) thickness of pad, on
>average, that others would get (as I drive on mountainous roads a lot).

Teenagers can go through a set of brake pads in ten miles on the track.
assuming they make it ten miles before the clutch wears out.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On 30 Jul 2020 23:03:32 -0000, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Teenagers can go through a set of brake pads in ten miles on the track.
> assuming they make it ten miles before the clutch wears out.

This is a college-aged girl who probably has never left skid marks on the
road even once, as I've seen her drive - and it's verrrrrry sloooooow.

Nonetheless, without an actual miles per millimeter of pad, it's not
helpful to tell me everyone is different, and every car is different, and
every road is different, as everyone knows that and so it isn't useful.

It's like claiming there is no such thing as a statistical average.
o There is a statistical average - but it takes data to arrive at it.

All I'm asking for is the data in miles per pad (or miles per millimeter).

I'm leaning toward 1000 miles per millimeter for those who brake hard, and
double to quadruple that (see The Real Bev's response) for normal driving.

All I want is number of miles per pad, where I can do the math (assuming 10
mm of pad is worn away in that time period, leaving 2mm of pad on average).

So far we have only two suitable responses:
1. I get 1,000 miles per millimeter of FF pads (Jurid/Textar)
2. The Real Bev gets about 4,000 miles per millimeter of pad

How many miles per front pad do others get?
--
Usenet is wonderful when everyone pitches in helpfully with knowledge.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on atypical economy sedan?
 

The Real Bev:

So when the brakes sound like a fog horn when
applied, it's: skip local mechanic(appt required for
next week!!) and head straight for 'Brakes-In-A-
Box'!

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on atypical economy sedan?
 

On 31/7/20 10:38 am, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 30 Jul 2020 23:03:32 -0000, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> Teenagers can go through a set of brake pads in ten miles on the track.
>> assuming they make it ten miles before the clutch wears out.
>
> This is a college-aged girl who probably has never left skid marks on the
> road even once, as I've seen her drive - and it's verrrrrry sloooooow.
>
> Nonetheless, without an actual miles per millimeter of pad, it's not
> helpful to tell me everyone is different, and every car is different, and
> every road is different, as everyone knows that and so it isn't useful.
>
> It's like claiming there is no such thing as a statistical average.
> o There is a statistical average - but it takes data to arrive at it.
>
> All I'm asking for is the data in miles per pad (or miles per millimeter).
>
> I'm leaning toward 1000 miles per millimeter for those who brake hard, and
> double to quadruple that (see The Real Bev's response) for normal driving.
>
> All I want is number of miles per pad, where I can do the math (assuming 10
> mm of pad is worn away in that time period, leaving 2mm of pad on average).
>
> So far we have only two suitable responses:
> 1. I get 1,000 miles per millimeter of FF pads (Jurid/Textar)
> 2. The Real Bev gets about 4,000 miles per millimeter of pad
>
> How many miles per front pad do others get?
>
I'm up to 100,000 kilometres on my Toyota front pads and I expect many more.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 17:28:41 +1000, Xeno wrote:

> I'm up to 100,000 kilometres on my Toyota
> front pads and I expect many more.

Thanks Xeno for understanding the question (which some who posted clearly
didn't) and for purposefully helpfully adding another datum to the solution
set (where the more good data we get, the better that average estimate).

Assuming new pads are 12 mm with a margin of 2 mm when replaced, that means
you attain at least 10,000km per millimeter (at least 6,000 miles per mm).

So far, we have the following decent datapoints:
o Jurid/Textar FF front pads at ~1,000 miles per mm (10,000 miles per pad)
o The Real Bev at about 4,000 miles per millimeter (40,000 miles per pad)
o Xeno front pads at about >6,000 miles per mm (>60,000 miles per pad)

One question is how much meat is left on the pad when you replace them.
o I'm assuming 2 mm out of the 12 mm in toto & of course, linear wear

Does that sound about right?
--
Usenet is most useful when adult post with purposefully helpful intent.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on atypical economy sedan?
 

On 07/30/2020 03:36 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 11:43:59 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I seem to remember 40K on the fronts and 80K on the rears.
>
> Hi The Real Bev,
>
> Thanks for that information about the front pads, which is what I seek.
> o Personally, I get about one thousand miles per millimeter of pad

That's a memory from long ago. I don't actually KNOW if those are good
numbers.

> The goal is to get those who have done the calculation to help out with an
> estimate of the number of miles per (whatever) thickness of pad, on
> average, that others would get (as I drive on mountainous roads a lot).
>
> People either know how many miles they get, or they don't know it.
> o So I thank you for that datapoint of another average'ish driver,
>
> If you get 40K per pad, and if new pads are, oh, hmmmm... how thick?
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NzSKGFr/pads05.jpg>
>
> I happen to have a few sets of "Centric Premium Ceramic" pads lying around,
> P/N 301.09080, marked "CEN30109080 31AC9101 GG 02 B19" (i.e., cold/hot
> friction rating of G/G, which is a friction coefficient of 0.45-0.55)
> <http://www.napbrake.com/2018/02/24/friction-coefficient-brake-pads/>
>
> The backing plate is 6mm & the pad, brand new, is an additional 12mm:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/DwnYLN9m/pads06.jpg>
>
> At 40K miles, that's about 40,000miles/12mm = about 3K miles per pad mm.
>
> Given the worn pads are about as thick as the backing plate, that's:
> o 6mm times about 3K miles/mm = about 18,000 miles left on those pads
>
>> Don't they put those little metal squeakers on the pads any more? You
>> can tolerate the squeaking for a long time, the grinding for a shorter
>> time, and the hogging in for only a VERY short time. Don't ask me how I
>> know this.
>
> This is what they come with, apparently:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NzSKGFr/pads05.jpg>

That looks too complex. I seem to remember (from the 1983 Sentra) just
a little thin metal tab that stuck out and contacted the rotor at a
chosen point. I bent it more to give me more wear, but I sent the car
to the knackers long before that point.

> Regarding not asking how you know this, I know that steel on steel has
> almost the same cold/hot friction coefficient as many brake pads people buy
> (e.g., EE pads) where I've seen rotors worn down to the ribs and the brakes
> "still work".

That would be me. The rotors looked like a beginning lathe project --
proof that they're made of softer stuff than the pad's backing plate
nubs. I could feel and hear the grinding, but the braking was just as
good as before it started. When I had to brake carefully to avoid
hogging in I figured I needed to deal with the problem. At the time the
rotors (Pep Boys, used) cost only $10 each. The cost wasn't the
problem, just the time.

> You get three times the miles I get, where I get around one thousand miles
> per millimeter of pad, or thereabouts, on my bimmer (OEM Textar/Jurid pads,
> with cold/hot friction ratings of F/F), looking at my records, but I live
> in hilly country, where people would likely get more on flat land.
>
> If we don't get further data, an average of two thousand miles per
> millimeter might be our starting point, in which case that's about twelve
> thousand miles left on those worn pads.

I wouldn't let it go that long now. I love my little Corolla and don't
want to hurt it. Rear drums, but I've never noticed a problem with
insufficient brake power from the rear. OTOH, how would I know?

--
Cheers,
Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Friends help you move. *Real* friends help you move bodies."
--A. Walker

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:50:43 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> That would be me. The rotors looked like a beginning lathe project --
> proof that they're made of softer stuff than the pad's backing plate
> nubs. I could feel and hear the grinding, but the braking was just as
> good as before it started. When I had to brake carefully to avoid
> hogging in I figured I needed to deal with the problem. At the time the
> rotors (Pep Boys, used) cost only $10 each. The cost wasn't the
> problem, just the time.

Hi The Real Bev,

I've worn _plenty_ of pads down to the rotors, where the grooving limit on
rotors is huge when you can find the spec. The limit that most people check
is the thickness, which, depending on factors, is usually two sets of pads
in my experience (but I sometimes get three sets of pads out of a rotor).

It's interesting that the cold/hot friction rating for steel on steel is
very similar to E/E pads, which I find a lot of people buy who don't know
anything about brake pads but what the MARKETING people tout (e.g.,
"ceramic" on the package could mean no more than a few spec of clay dust,
based on my personal talks with the Axxis marketing team).

Basically, the only valid data you have is what's printed, by law, on all
US pads sold for passenger vehicles, which is the cold/hot friction rating.
<http://faculty.ccbcmd.edu/~smacadof/DOTPadCodes.htm>

Anything else, IMHO, is marketing bull****.

> I wouldn't let it go that long now. I love my little Corolla and don't
> want to hurt it. Rear drums, but I've never noticed a problem with
> insufficient brake power from the rear. OTOH, how would I know?

Drums are different, and more of a pita, IMHO, than disc brakes.
o The drums have an inspection port, but I always found it rather useless.

While you "can" hurt a caliper by metal on metal heating up things, going
to the point of a millimeter or two of that is safe, as far as I know.

In my situation of mountainous driving causing inboard wear on the front
tires, I rotate the wheels every few months anyway, so for disc brakes, I
inspect them at every rotation.

That's where the calculation of miles remaining can be of use.
o Given current data, something around 4K miles per millimeter seems ok.

That means I'll tell her she has likely at least 20K miles to go.
--
Usenet is a great public helpdesk to get ideas from a bunch of nice people.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:50:43 -0700, The Real Bev > wrote:


>
>I wouldn't let it go that long now. I love my little Corolla and don't
>want to hurt it. Rear drums, but I've never noticed a problem with
>insufficient brake power from the rear. OTOH, how would I know?

You probably wouldn't unless your front pads were wearing fast.
The self-adjusters on rear drums are usually the weak point.
Some adjust when you brake in reverse gear, others when you use the E-brake.
Since I never (or seldom) use the E-brake here in the flatlands, my back shoes weren't even
applying on one car I had. Wondered why my front pads were wearing out so fast.
As I recall there was no mention of using the E-brake to adjust the rear shoes in the
owners manual.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on atypical economy sedan?
 

On 07/31/2020 02:03 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:50:43 -0700, The Real Bev > wrote:
>>
>>I wouldn't let it go that long now. I love my little Corolla and don't
>>want to hurt it. Rear drums, but I've never noticed a problem with
>>insufficient brake power from the rear. OTOH, how would I know?
>
> You probably wouldn't unless your front pads were wearing fast.
> The self-adjusters on rear drums are usually the weak point.
> Some adjust when you brake in reverse gear, others when you use the E-brake.
> Since I never (or seldom) use the E-brake here in the flatlands, my back shoes weren't even
> applying on one car I had. Wondered why my front pads were wearing out so fast.
> As I recall there was no mention of using the E-brake to adjust the rear shoes in the
> owners manual.

I remember about braking backwards, but I've never heard of using the
handbrake. I think they discourage calling them 'emergency brakes' now,
on the assumption that you'll think they protect you in an emergency.
Like 'safety belts' instead of 'seat belts'. I'll try to find something
about it in the manual.

The E-brake on the 1976 monsterhome (or some other elderly vehicle, it
was decades ago that I saw this) had nothing to do with the brake, it
was a clamshell that tightened on the driveshaft.


--
Cheers, Bev
"Give me all your brains or I'll blow your money out!"
--Anonymous Unsuccessful Bank Robber

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on atypical economy sedan?
 

On 07/31/2020 03:56 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> The E-brake on the 1976 monsterhome (or some other elderly vehicle, it
> was decades ago that I saw this) had nothing to do with the brake, it
> was a clamshell that tightened on the driveshaft.

I don't know how many years it spanned but a '60 Plymouth with a
TorqeFlite had a drum on the tail of the tranny for the e-brake. When i
dropped in a manual, I didn't have an emergency brake. No big deal until
a state trooper asked me to demonstrate the effectiveness. Next step was
replacing the rear axle with one that had one and kludging up the
linkage. The car wasn't exactly factory stock when I got through with it.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on atypical economy sedan?
 

On 1/8/20 12:25 am, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 17:28:41 +1000, Xeno wrote:
>
>> I'm up to 100,000 kilometres on my Toyota
>> front pads and I expect many more.
>
> Thanks Xeno for understanding the question (which some who posted clearly
> didn't) and for purposefully helpfully adding another datum to the solution
> set (where the more good data we get, the better that average estimate).
>
> Assuming new pads are 12 mm with a margin of 2 mm when replaced, that means
> you attain at least 10,000km per millimeter (at least 6,000 miles per mm).
>
> So far, we have the following decent datapoints:
> o Jurid/Textar FF front pads at ~1,000 miles per mm (10,000 miles per pad)
> o The Real Bev at about 4,000 miles per millimeter (40,000 miles per pad)
> o Xeno front pads at about >6,000 miles per mm (>60,000 miles per pad)
>
> One question is how much meat is left on the pad when you replace them.
> o I'm assuming 2 mm out of the 12 mm in toto & of course, linear wear
>
> Does that sound about right?
>
Yes, that or more. I don't wear pads right down to the legal minimum either.

Previous car's pads were replaced at 80,000 kilometres and had more than
4mm remaining. This current car does mostly country highway running so
brakes last a long time whereas the previous was used in heavy city
commutes.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 20:56:32 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> I don't know

Which won't stop you from blathering and gossiping about each and every
topic in this world, eh, senile lowbrowwoman? <G>

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 22:33:12 -0400, wrote:

> OLD school dating from the start of disk brakes was a metal tab that
> hit the rotor and made a horrible sound when the pads were worn down
> too far. I had that on my 67 Chevelle.

The last time I looked at this vehicle, as I recall, the metal tab was
about 2mm (or so) from the brake pad backing plate.

Hence, given the datapoints so far in this thread, I'm going with a
calculation of miles per millimeter (yea, I know, I'm mixing units)
of around 4,000 miles per millimeter (tentatively).

That's assuming a 12 mm pad when new, and 2 mm left when replaced.
o More data is always welcome so that we can hone those figures.
--
Usenet is best when adults post purposefully helpful datapoints.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:04:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

> Every pad I've installed for decades has had them, including the ones that
> use electric wear sensors.

How many miles do you get per front pads, in general?

As for mechanical sensors, my bimmer has only one wear sensor per axle
o No mechanical sensor; only electronic (front left and rear right).

Although electronic is essentially mechanical, since it's a stub of plastic
that wears on contact, exposing the wires embedded inside that plastic.

One issue is removing the sensors often breaks them if you're not careful.

Since we rotate so frequently, checking brakes are easy; but this question
was for estimating miles for someone else who doesn't rotate as frequently
as I do (due to mountainous terrain causing specific "camber scrub" wear to
the inboard corners of the front tires).

At the moment, with the data we have, it's about 4,000 miles per pad mm.
--
Usenet works best when helpful adults share ideas politely with each other.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life ona typical economy sedan?
 

Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:04:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:
>
>> Every pad I've installed for decades has had them, including the ones that
>> use electric wear sensors.
>
> How many miles do you get per front pads, in general?
>
> As for mechanical sensors, my bimmer has only one wear sensor per axle
> o No mechanical sensor; only electronic (front left and rear right).
>
> Although electronic is essentially mechanical, since it's a stub of plastic
> that wears on contact, exposing the wires embedded inside that plastic.
>
> One issue is removing the sensors often breaks them if you're not careful.
>
> Since we rotate so frequently, checking brakes are easy; but this question
> was for estimating miles for someone else who doesn't rotate as frequently
> as I do (due to mountainous terrain causing specific "camber scrub" wear to
> the inboard corners of the front tires).
>
> At the moment, with the data we have, it's about 4,000 miles per pad mm.

There is no rule of thumb for brake wear because it depends more on the
driver, vehicle location and the pad materials than anything else.

Drive out in the plains where the only hills are long and low and the
brake wear is going to be much different than if you live in the
rockies. Same with driving in New York City versus San Fransisco.

Another factor is the vehicle itself and how it is set up. Some will
chew through brakes fast while others barely nibble. Some will go
through brakes in 40K or less while others might make it to the junkyard
on the OEM rears pads.


The Journey we have had all the brakes done by the dealer with OEM
parts prior to our purchase, They have about 55K on them and the fronts
are worn maybe 1/2 way. The rears however were just replaced, but not
for wear, the rotors rusted into junk and damaged the pads. So it got
new NAPA coated rotors and premium ceramics to see how they work on it,
have had very good service from them on many other vehicles.


--
Steve W.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on atypical economy sedan?
 

On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 12:28:48 PM UTC-4, Steve W. wrote:
> Arlen Holder wrote:
> > On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:04:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:
> >
> >> Every pad I've installed for decades has had them, including the ones that
> >> use electric wear sensors.
> >
> > How many miles do you get per front pads, in general?
> >
> > As for mechanical sensors, my bimmer has only one wear sensor per axle
> > o No mechanical sensor; only electronic (front left and rear right).
> >
> > Although electronic is essentially mechanical, since it's a stub of plastic
> > that wears on contact, exposing the wires embedded inside that plastic.
> >
> > One issue is removing the sensors often breaks them if you're not careful.
> >
> > Since we rotate so frequently, checking brakes are easy; but this question
> > was for estimating miles for someone else who doesn't rotate as frequently
> > as I do (due to mountainous terrain causing specific "camber scrub" wear to
> > the inboard corners of the front tires).
> >
> > At the moment, with the data we have, it's about 4,000 miles per pad mm.
>
> There is no rule of thumb for brake wear because it depends more on the
> driver, vehicle location and the pad materials than anything else.
>
> Drive out in the plains where the only hills are long and low and the
> brake wear is going to be much different than if you live in the
> rockies. Same with driving in New York City versus San Fransisco.
>
> Another factor is the vehicle itself and how it is set up. Some will
> chew through brakes fast while others barely nibble. Some will go
> through brakes in 40K or less while others might make it to the junkyard
> on the OEM rears pads.
>
>
> The Journey we have had all the brakes done by the dealer with OEM
> parts prior to our purchase, They have about 55K on them and the fronts
> are worn maybe 1/2 way. The rears however were just replaced, but not
> for wear, the rotors rusted into junk and damaged the pads. So it got
> new NAPA coated rotors and premium ceramics to see how they work on it,
> have had very good service from them on many other vehicles.
>

Another factor is riveted vs. bonded linings, you can run a bonded lining a lot thinner than a riveted one. 5mm might be thiiiiiis close to grinding the rivet heads.

nate

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On 11/8/20 4:10 am, N8N wrote:
> On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 12:28:48 PM UTC-4, Steve W. wrote:
>> Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:04:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:
>>>
>>>> Every pad I've installed for decades has had them, including the ones that
>>>> use electric wear sensors.
>>>
>>> How many miles do you get per front pads, in general?
>>>
>>> As for mechanical sensors, my bimmer has only one wear sensor per axle
>>> o No mechanical sensor; only electronic (front left and rear right).
>>>
>>> Although electronic is essentially mechanical, since it's a stub of plastic
>>> that wears on contact, exposing the wires embedded inside that plastic.
>>>
>>> One issue is removing the sensors often breaks them if you're not careful.
>>>
>>> Since we rotate so frequently, checking brakes are easy; but this question
>>> was for estimating miles for someone else who doesn't rotate as frequently
>>> as I do (due to mountainous terrain causing specific "camber scrub" wear to
>>> the inboard corners of the front tires).
>>>
>>> At the moment, with the data we have, it's about 4,000 miles per pad mm.
>>
>> There is no rule of thumb for brake wear because it depends more on the
>> driver, vehicle location and the pad materials than anything else.
>>
>> Drive out in the plains where the only hills are long and low and the
>> brake wear is going to be much different than if you live in the
>> rockies. Same with driving in New York City versus San Fransisco.
>>
>> Another factor is the vehicle itself and how it is set up. Some will
>> chew through brakes fast while others barely nibble. Some will go
>> through brakes in 40K or less while others might make it to the junkyard
>> on the OEM rears pads.
>>
>>
>> The Journey we have had all the brakes done by the dealer with OEM
>> parts prior to our purchase, They have about 55K on them and the fronts
>> are worn maybe 1/2 way. The rears however were just replaced, but not
>> for wear, the rotors rusted into junk and damaged the pads. So it got
>> new NAPA coated rotors and premium ceramics to see how they work on it,
>> have had very good service from them on many other vehicles.
>>
>
> Another factor is riveted vs. bonded linings, you can run a bonded lining a lot thinner than a riveted one. 5mm might be thiiiiiis close to grinding the rivet heads.
>
> nate
>
Rivets? In this era? Bonded shoes are all I have seen for *decades*.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 11:10:15 -0700 (PDT), N8N wrote:

> Another factor is riveted vs. bonded linings,
> you can run a bonded lining a lot thinner than a riveted one.
> 5mm might be thiiiiiis close to grinding the rivet heads.

That's a good point I hadn't remembered as I haven't seen riveted pads for
a long time, although I do remember them from the past.

They would groove a rotor in no time.

What I'm seeking is how long do YOU get on a set of front pads?

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 12:28:47 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

> There is no rule of thumb for brake wear because it depends more on the
> driver, vehicle location and the pad materials than anything else.

That's like saying there's no average lifespan for a person or vehicle.
o It's a copout (in my humble opinion).

Yes, there _is_ a rule of thumb.
o For example, no front disc pads last the life of the vehicle.

And as another example, no pads likely last only 10,000 miles either.

There's an AVERAGE.
o That's what I seek.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on atypical economy sedan?
 

On 8/17/2020 6:46 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 11:10:15 -0700 (PDT), N8N wrote:
>
>> Another factor is riveted vs. bonded linings,
>> you can run a bonded lining a lot thinner than a riveted one.
>> 5mm might be thiiiiiis close to grinding the rivet heads.
> That's a good point I hadn't remembered as I haven't seen riveted pads for
> a long time, although I do remember them from the past.
>
> They would groove a rotor in no time.
>
> What I'm seeking is how long do YOU get on a set of front pads?


I have traded-in my cars at 60,000 for the last 30 years.Â* Never had a brake job.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 12:28:47 -0400, Steve W. wrote:
>
>> There is no rule of thumb for brake wear because it depends more on the
>> driver, vehicle location and the pad materials than anything else.
>
> That's like saying there's no average lifespan for a person or vehicle.
> o It's a copout (in my humble opinion).
>
> Yes, there _is_ a rule of thumb.
> o For example, no front disc pads last the life of the vehicle.
>
> And as another example, no pads likely last only 10,000 miles either.
>
> There's an AVERAGE.
> o That's what I seek.

Not a cop out just a fact. I know of people who do burn through front
pads in under 10K and I know of others with 60K on fronts. They drive
differently and use different parts. The only time you can make a guess
is on your own vehicle, because you know how you drive.

There really is no average when it comes to brakes unless you know how
that person drives, where they drive and the parts they used. I never
gave a guess on pad life, I would however measure the pads and tell them
what was left. If it was a new car then you have a mileage to use, but
even that wouldn't matter much if the car had been setting for a while
and now it's driven 6-800 miles a day.

--
Steve W.

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On 8/17/2020 6:46 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 12:28:47 -0400, Steve W. wrote:
>
>> There is no rule of thumb for brake wear because it depends more on the
>> driver, vehicle location and the pad materials than anything else.
>
> That's like saying there's no average lifespan for a person or vehicle.
> o It's a copout (in my humble opinion).
>
> Yes, there _is_ a rule of thumb.
> o For example, no front disc pads last the life of the vehicle.
>
> And as another example, no pads likely last only 10,000 miles either.
>
> There's an AVERAGE.
> o That's what I seek.
>

I've gone through pads in 10,000 miles. The rule of thumb you seek
depends on driving conditions.

When you first brought this up I mentioned my experience from city
living to rural living the the difference is huge. AVERAGE is
meaningless unless you know where you stand on the parameters. .

What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan?
 

On 8/17/2020 7:00 PM, Roger Oveur wrote:
> On 8/17/2020 6:46 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 11:10:15 -0700 (PDT), N8N wrote:
>>
>>> Another factor is riveted vs. bonded linings,
>>> you can run a bonded lining a lot thinner than a riveted one.
>>> 5mm might be thiiiiiis close to grinding the rivet heads.
>> That's a good point I hadn't remembered as I haven't seen riveted pads
>> for
>> a long time, although I do remember them from the past.
>>
>> They would groove a rotor in no time.
>>
>> What I'm seeking is how long do YOU get on a set of front pads?
>
>
> I have traded-in my cars at 60,000 for the last 30 years.Â* Never had a
> brake job.
>

From that, I can conclude you don't use you car as a taxi in NYC or
Chicago.