Cars - Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

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Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, NJ Vike quoted from Car & Driver:

> Although the warranties are for eight years or 100,000 miles, battery
> replacement will cost $5300 for the Toyota and Lexus hybrids, and the
> Ford Escape replacements run a whopping $7200. Moreover, the industry
> types aren't talking about total battery life. Will they actually last
> 100,000 miles?

No. My officemate has an '03 Honda Civic hybrid. It started giving
problems on his way from Montreal to Toronto. The Integrated Motor Assist
system went offline, which also meant the SLI battery (Starting, Lighting,
Ignition -- the conventional 12v item under the hood) was not being
charged. When he limped into the parking lot, his SLI battery read 9.9v.

Towed to the dealer, who after three days gave the diagnostic report: The
traction battery's dead. Good thing the battery warranty is 6 years,
otherwise it'd be a C$8,000+ event. Dealer claims this is the first-ever
failure of a traction battery in a Honda hybrid of any year or model,
anywhere in the world (Sure, right...) and that a new traction battery has
to be brought in from Japan, which will take AT LEAST three weeks.

Of course, there are multiple different issues going on here. There's the
car problem itself, then there's the dealer's fairy tales. I can think of
half a dozen courier companies that'll happily get a package from Japan to
North America in a matter of a couple of days, so that shoots the "three
weeks to come from Japan" theory all to hell. And if this were indeed the
very first-ever instance of this heretofore unheard-of failure in one of
Honda's high-profile, high-PR-value enviro models, one would think the
company would be falling all over itself to make the repair as quickly as
possible to keep the customer as quiet as possible about it.

> How will this affect resale value?

Pah. What resale value? This kind of traction battery failure does NOT
bode well for the durability of these cars. Sure, it's covered under his
battery warranty. The new replacement battery does not reset the battery
warranty clock. What about in 5 years? They are disposable cars. 10 years
*tops*. More like "end of warranty plus time to next failure".

> This brings up an undiscussed issue: At some point, all these hybrid
> batteries will die and have to be disposed of somewhere, somehow. These
> are hardly biodegradable items like spoiled vegetables. They are in fact
> self-contained toxic waste dumps. How and where millions of these
> poisonous boxes will be deposited in the new hybrid nirvana has yet to
> be considered, much less resolved.

NiMH batteries are indeed hair-raisingly toxic and expensive to
reclaim/recycle. Once no longer in the dealer chain, they will simply get
tossed -- along with the rest of the car.

DS

Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

The whole idea of hybrids is stupid. Just make cars smaller and leave
out all the useless crap. Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.

Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

Laura Bush murdered her boy friend, > was motivated
to say this in rec.autos.driving on 21 Nov 2005 09:35:24 -0800:
> Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
> family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
> 250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.
>
>

<intro to business lesson>

Then why don't they?

</intro to business lesson>

Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

>
> No. My officemate has an '03 Honda Civic hybrid. It started giving
> problems on his way from Montreal to Toronto. The Integrated Motor
> Assist system went offline, which also meant the SLI battery (Starting,
> Lighting, Ignition -- the conventional 12v item under the hood) was not
> being charged. When he limped into the parking lot, his SLI battery read
> 9.9v.
>

Yep, this is the dirty little secret of hybrids. They are going to be
worthless after they hit the end of warranty period because the cost to
replace the battery pack will exceed the value of the vehicle.

Have people learning nothing from cell phones and laptop computers where
failure to take a charge rechargeable batteries are often the death
sentence?

John

Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

"Idiot Conspiracist" > wrote:

> The whole idea of hybrids is stupid. Just make cars smaller and leave
> out all the useless crap. Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
> family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
> 250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.

And just plate it brass when the occasion arises and doubles as a neat-o
coffin! Holds a family of four to save plot space too!

;)

--
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

"John Horner" > wrote in message
news:kNngf.2035$PC2.606@trnddc03...
> Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>
>>
>> No. My officemate has an '03 Honda Civic hybrid. It started giving
>> problems on his way from Montreal to Toronto. The Integrated Motor Assist
>> system went offline, which also meant the SLI battery (Starting,
>> Lighting, Ignition -- the conventional 12v item under the hood) was not
>> being charged. When he limped into the parking lot, his SLI battery read
>> 9.9v.
>>
>
>
> Yep, this is the dirty little secret of hybrids. They are going to be
> worthless after they hit the end of warranty period because the cost to
> replace the battery pack will exceed the value of the vehicle.
>
> Have people learning nothing from cell phones and laptop computers where
> failure to take a charge rechargeable batteries are often the death
> sentence?
>
> John

Hold on there! I just bought a replacement battery for my Dell Inspiron -
total cost $72. It was a little over two years old (a bit soon for failure
IMHO). But the cost was only about 10-15% of the laptop's resale value.
Certainly no reason to trash it.

Point being that IF the cost of a replacement battery pack for a hybrid was
10-15% of the vehicle's value at the time it was needed, the resale would
not be so adversely affected. I admit, though, that the price is unlikely to
drop to that level.

Doug

Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:
> The whole idea of hybrids is stupid. Just make cars smaller and leave
> out all the useless crap. Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
> family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
> 250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.

What the **** would you know about routain maintenance, Mr. Drive a POS
vehicle with bald tires and no dash lights?

Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

necromancer wrote:
> Laura Bush murdered her boy friend, > was motivated
> to say this in rec.autos.driving on 21 Nov 2005 09:35:24 -0800:
> > Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
> > family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
> > 250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.
> >
> >
>
> <intro to business lesson>
>
> Then why don't they?

Cause they make more selling the $50,000 cars with all sorts of
useless gadgets. You think they sell AC and CD players and electric
seats at cost??

Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

What would you expect form a guy that says Mrs. Bush murder someone? LOL

mike

"necromancer" > wrote in message
th.net...
> Laura Bush murdered her boy friend, > was motivated
> to say this in rec.autos.driving on 21 Nov 2005 09:35:24 -0800:
>> Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
>> family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
>> 250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.
>>
>>
>
> <intro to business lesson>
>
> Then why don't they?
>
> </intro to business lesson>
>