Is GTR the next GPL?
 

Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any
racing sims since about 2001.

Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just hype.
RBR is the new GPL
"john henry bonham" > wrote in message
.. .
> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing
> sims since about 2001.

This is about the physics engine, right?

Guess I'll leave that to who's driven these cars IRL. I have brought RBR -
but again, however good this rally sim is it still feels real lonely out
there without the wheel to wheel competition :)

The physics do seem to me, very good in GTR with one reservation. However,
only time will tell if it has a chance to live up to the classic that is
GPL. I've also looked at the files and can see no way for modding like GPL
which has helped keep it alive for so long. And what is it about open wheel
racing; I just love seeing the wheels and suspension at work and it
seriously helps with the placement of the car on the track.

The real sad thing now is that GPLs graphics are looking really tardy and
dated being Directx7 and seeing the georgeous SPA in GTR and the rally
circuits in RBR complete with bump mapping (especially in RBR) its hard not
to be impressed with these latest sim additions.

Alan

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just hype.
> RBR is the new GPL
> "john henry bonham" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing
>> sims since about 2001.
>
>

"Dan" > wrote in message >...
> Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just hype.
> RBR is the new GPL
> "john henry bonham" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing
> > sims since about 2001.

RBR feels like a racing sim demo to me. Great graphics and physics,
but nobody to race against (like the 1st GTR demo). I know this is
how rally racing is supposed to be, but I find it a bit... lonely.
Anyway, no sense in comparing RBR to GTR, as it's two completely
different types of "racing". If you prefer racing against the clock,
RBR can't be beat (at the moment). I prefer racing against other cars
on the circuit, so I am eagerly awaiting GTR!

-Pat

Ahhhhhhhh what a loaded question, which will produce predictable
results in this group... Damn bloody GPL luddites, hahahha... There
will never be another GPL, hell I even wonder if GPL could stand up to
GPL, hahahha..


Goes the old story, GPL simmer gets a chance to drive a full spec
modern F1 car, he takes it out for 20 laps (insert your favorite track
here) upon the conclusion of this test drive, he exits the car and
says "that was pretty cool, but it ain't no GPL"


Even with all the glaring problems in GPL looking like monsterous
cyclops that Sinbad had to battle, people still insist GPL is king..
Even though the folks who were instrumental in creating and beta
testing GPL exclaim in no uncertain terms that the technology has
moved on and there are more accurate simulations out there, still many
insist GPL is king.. And for them yes GPL is king, doesn't make GPL
the most technically proficient sim out there its SIMply (no pun
intended) what they dig....


Perhaps if Dave K. makes GPL2 some will finally change their tune,
though I'm sure they'll test it out, do some laps, come back into the
pits and exclaim (dont' make me say it !!) hahhhahhaha



Its no ........



PS: now excuse me while I run some laps in Pole Position...


GPL: its no pole position


now see you made me coin a new phrase , hahah








On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:27:59 +0100, john henry bonham >
wrote:

>Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any
>racing sims since about 2001.

So in RBR you get the best competition from trees or zebras, as there
are no other cars to race against.... hehe. sorry I've heard that RBR
is very good but since in GPL your racing against 19 other cars and in
RBR its the clock or whatever animal you run into , how can you
compare...






On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:46:24 +1000, "Dan" > wrote:

>Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just hype.
>RBR is the new GPL
>"john henry bonham" > wrote in message
. ..
>> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing
>> sims since about 2001.
>
>

Simple answer is.......... no !

"john henry bonham" wrote...
> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much
> fun with any racing sims since about 2001.

As a sim, GPL has been surpassed many times over. As a concept I think we
need to wait and see if either rFactor or Keammer's next offering (can't
think of the working title right now) will take off in a big way.

GTR, if it delivers on it's online promise, could attrackt a lot of GPL
simmers to it, but I'm quite sure it won't replace GPL entirely. Partly
because GTR will inherit some issues from earlier ISI games (having to
manually edit files to configer one's controller correctly, e.g.) and partly
because driving an accurate simulation of modern racing cars will require a
lot of discipline from the drivers.

Part of GPL's lasting appeal, I think, is that because of the nature of the
cars and the limitations/inaccuracies of the game, you can, in a driving
sense, push the boat out incredibly far wihtout getting punished for it,
making it simply a lot of fun to play.

Jan.
=---

"Rich8" > wrote in message
.. .
> Ahhhhhhhh what a loaded question, which will produce predictable
> results in this group... Damn bloody GPL luddites, hahahha... There
> will never be another GPL, hell I even wonder if GPL could stand up to
> GPL, hahahha..<snip>

The point is whether GTR will be to it's predecessors and peers what GPL
was, and the answer is almost certainly no. GPL, despite it's
now-acknowledged shortcomings, was so far above what had come before it that
it basically redefined the genre. Others have come along and done bits and
pieces better for sure, but no overall game/sim since has raised the bar as
much in one go. Which is natural; the closer you get to true realism, the
less you CAN advance in subsequent steps.

ISI (and their partners, i.e. SimBin) have indeed come a long way, but no
one has yet matched Papy for putting a total package together; physics,
graphics, interface, multiplayer, replay capability, controller support,
etc. I'd say DK's the best bet to surpass that benchmark, or maybe... (you
know who ;-)) But whoever manages it, the day can't come soon enough - I
need a good reason to build a new PC!

SB

At times, oh so many times, the beauty of RBR is just that, you dont need
nobody. That means no cheates, no wreckers, no bul**** jaw-flapping
keyboard jockies... There have been nights where you were "free" to race,
but there was nobody around, (most of the time they all were all in that
latest of 300th consecutive Dega-Tona servers)...

Sure I got the "Other 2 games for online racing, but Damnit I love RBR.



Rich8 enlightened us with:
> So in RBR you get the best competition from trees or zebras, as there
> are no other cars to race against.... hehe. sorry I've heard that RBR
> is very good but since in GPL your racing against 19 other cars and in
> RBR its the clock or whatever animal you run into , how can you
> compare...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:46:24 +1000, "Dan" > wrote:
>
>> Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just
>> hype. RBR is the new GPL
>> "john henry bonham" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any
>>> racing sims since about 2001.

Whats RBR?

Martin.

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just hype.
> RBR is the new GPL
> "john henry bonham" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing
>> sims since about 2001.
>
>

"MartinKnud" wrote...
> Whats RBR?

Richard Burns Rally... a great rally sim.

http://www.richardburnsrally.com

Jan.
=---

"Jan Verschueren" > wrote in message
...

> Part of GPL's lasting appeal, I think, is that because of the nature
of the
> cars and the limitations/inaccuracies of the game, you can, in a
driving
> sense, push the boat out incredibly far wihtout getting punished for
it,
> making it simply a lot of fun to play.

Personally I think gpl's main long-term appeal is partly that it's
sufficiently hard that it's tremendously satisfying when you get it
right, RBR does this well, GTR is okay but it's hard to tell from the
demos.

But mostly, I think gpl's lasting appeal online comes from it's
difficulty to modify. It's fairly easy to alter the ini files in most
sims to make the car faster etc. This is great for the modders but imo
kills long-term appeal because it takes away the level playing field. I
can compare my best Nurby laptime with one done 5 years ago & know that
not only am I driving the same track, it's with exactly the same car
too.

If GTR (or any other sim) wants to be popular, make it easy to mod. If
it wants to have lasting appeal though it need to be hard to mod/cheat.

Personally I think RBR has got the appeal of the challenge spot on, it's
rewarding to drive. LFS has the cheat protection though, and is pretty
close to good enough with the driving.

imo LFS is the 'next gpl' or at least a worthy candidate, GTR may be,
but let's see something a little more complete before comparing it to
anything else out there.

Malc.

Malc > wrote in message
...
> "Jan Verschueren" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Part of GPL's lasting appeal, I think, is that because of the nature
> of the
> > cars and the limitations/inaccuracies of the game, you can, in a
> driving
> > sense, push the boat out incredibly far wihtout getting punished for
> it,
> > making it simply a lot of fun to play.
>
> Personally I think gpl's main long-term appeal is partly that it's
> sufficiently hard that it's tremendously satisfying when you get it
> right, RBR does this well, GTR is okay but it's hard to tell from the
> demos.
>
> But mostly, I think gpl's lasting appeal online comes from it's
> difficulty to modify. It's fairly easy to alter the ini files in most
> sims to make the car faster etc. This is great for the modders but imo
> kills long-term appeal because it takes away the level playing field. I
> can compare my best Nurby laptime with one done 5 years ago & know that
> not only am I driving the same track, it's with exactly the same car
> too.
>
> If GTR (or any other sim) wants to be popular, make it easy to mod. If
> it wants to have lasting appeal though it need to be hard to mod/cheat.
>
> Personally I think RBR has got the appeal of the challenge spot on, it's
> rewarding to drive. LFS has the cheat protection though, and is pretty
> close to good enough with the driving.
>
> imo LFS is the 'next gpl' or at least a worthy candidate, GTR may be,
> but let's see something a little more complete before comparing it to
> anything else out there.
>
> Malc.


Hmmm........gpl difficult to modify ? Thats a new one <g> The whole
thing has been hacked; graphics, physics, engine, you name it.
>
>

"JP" wrote...
>>> <snip>
> Hmmm........gpl difficult to modify ? Thats a new
> one <g> The whole thing has been hacked; graphics,
> physics, engine, you name it.

Yes, but it was/is difficult. Ever tried making a track?

Jan.
=---

I agree RBR is one of the most self challanging sims ever, it really makes
you work to improve your times. If you get real lonely you can race the
ghost cars.........
"Plowboy2" > wrote in message
news:FLVbd.98247$a85.1594@fed1read04...
> At times, oh so many times, the beauty of RBR is just that, you dont need
> nobody. That means no cheates, no wreckers, no bul**** jaw-flapping
> keyboard jockies... There have been nights where you were "free" to race,
> but there was nobody around, (most of the time they all were all in that
> latest of 300th consecutive Dega-Tona servers)...
>
> Sure I got the "Other 2 games for online racing, but Damnit I love RBR.
>
>
>
> Rich8 enlightened us with:
>> So in RBR you get the best competition from trees or zebras, as there
>> are no other cars to race against.... hehe. sorry I've heard that RBR
>> is very good but since in GPL your racing against 19 other cars and in
>> RBR its the clock or whatever animal you run into , how can you
>> compare...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:46:24 +1000, "Dan" > wrote:
>>
>>> Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just
>>> hype. RBR is the new GPL
>>> "john henry bonham" > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>>> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any
>>>> racing sims since about 2001.
>
>

"JP" > wrote in message
...

> So ? It wasn't difficult enough to prevent it though, eh ?

Nothing is impossible with enough time and skill, and it's taken a long
time to produce mods for gpl. It takes a long time to produce tracks,
and even graphics updates are only made relatively easy by the use of
utils that the community has developed over long periods of time.

Your view of the gpl mods doesn't take into account the time it's taken
to produce this stuff JP, and the skill of those that have done so.

Malc.

Malc > wrote in message
...
> "JP" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > So ? It wasn't difficult enough to prevent it though, eh ?
>
> Nothing is impossible with enough time and skill, and it's taken a long
> time to produce mods for gpl. It takes a long time to produce tracks,
> and even graphics updates are only made relatively easy by the use of
> utils that the community has developed over long periods of time.
>
> Your view of the gpl mods doesn't take into account the time it's taken
> to produce this stuff JP, and the skill of those that have done so.
>
> Malc.



Actually, I have the greatest respect for them and their efforts. That
wasn't the point of my original replay. At all. You said it was difficult
to mod gpl; the multitude of mods available prove otherwise.

Its easy to *mod GPL*. Its hard to make the mods themselves. Seems easy
to grasp to me.


>
>

JP wrote:

> wasn't the point of my original replay. At all. You said it was difficult
> to mod gpl; the multitude of mods available prove otherwise.
>
> Its easy to *mod GPL*. Its hard to make the mods themselves. Seems easy
> to grasp to me.

Seems contradictory to *me*....

I think it's *not* easy to mod GPL or world+dog would've done it. As it
is, only *some* people have done it, and they've been sensible enough to
keep the really sensitive data mainly to themselves. If they hadn't,
world+dog etc, and cheating would have been pretty easy. And that
*would* have had an impact on the popularity of GPL, imho.


Regards, Rudy
------------
GPLRank: -24

Ruud Dingemans > wrote in message
...
> JP wrote:
>
> > wasn't the point of my original replay. At all. You said it was
difficult
> > to mod gpl; the multitude of mods available prove otherwise.
> >
> > Its easy to *mod GPL*. Its hard to make the mods themselves. Seems
easy
> > to grasp to me.
>
> Seems contradictory to *me*....
>
> I think it's *not* easy to mod GPL or world+dog would've done it. As it
> is, only *some* people have done it, and they've been sensible enough to
> keep the really sensitive data mainly to themselves. If they hadn't,
> world+dog etc, and cheating would have been pretty easy. And that
> *would* have had an impact on the popularity of GPL, imho.
>
>
> Regards, Rudy
> ------------
> GPLRank: -24


Thats true. Maybe the word hack would be a better one. Anyway, Malc
stated it was good that gpl is difficult to mod, that way he knows a lap
he's running, etc. My point was, that using that example(comparing laps)
isn't a good one in gpl, since it has been hacked since almost day one,
including the .exe file.

And between that file format, and the other ones that have been hacked in
gpl, as shown by all the hacks, mods, etc., its obvious gpl isn't hard to
hack at all.

In article >,
says...
> Whats RBR?
>
> Martin.
>

Real-life Blowup Ruby. She's not for everyone and best played with
solo.

> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just hype.
> > RBR is the new GPL
> > "john henry bonham" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> >> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing
> >> sims since about 2001.
> >
> >
>
>
>

--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email